Election

ShotOnTarget
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Election

Postby ShotOnTarget » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:12 pm

Shotto wrote:SoT, I think you're confusing things a tad. Social sciences are not social work, they are entirely different. A social work degree educates the holder in the legal minefield of our care system.


My mistake. For Social Sciences, read Social Work.
Shotto
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Alberts town

Re: Election

Postby Shotto » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:23 pm

Far be it for me to defend the social work profession, but for every negative case that comes to the press' attention, there are countless lives saved through the diligence and care of good social workers. Who was it that advocated for the children in the Rochdale sex abuse case, when the police and council workers refused to act?
scorp
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:54 pm
Location: England

Re: Election

Postby scorp » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Shotto wrote:Far be it for me to defend the social work profession, but for every negative case that comes to the press' attention, there are countless lives saved through the diligence and care of good social workers. Who was it that advocated for the children in the Rochdale sex abuse case, when the police and council workers refused to act?


Spot on.
hepcat
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Election

Postby hepcat » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:24 am

ShotOnTarget wrote:
Shotto wrote:
ShotOnTarget wrote:Spot the odd one out. The clue is in earlier posts.


Nope, can't see an odd one in that lot! All challenging degrees that lead to a worthy career.


I was told by a contact well-versed in such matters "For facism to flourish, the following combination of factors must exist:

1. Low intelligence
2. Lack of transparency
3. Lack of accountability
4. Unfettered power."

He gave the example of the horrors uncovered at Abu Graib prison (where soldiers subjected inmates to abuse) and also asserted that 1 to 4 applied to Social Workers. Interestingly, a lot of undergrads consider degrees in Social Work to be the province of the also-rans. A 'pretend' degree for the thickos incapable of genuine academic achievement. That's debatable. One would have to read Social Sciences to make a valid comparison with ones own degree.

There is, however, growing disquiet as to how out of touch social workers have become to the extent that films such as Traffic 2 are now on release.

https://www.petemiddletonpictures.co.uk/traffic-2

Traffic 1 was successfully banned by the authorities on false assertion of copyright. In reality, the authorities didn't like some of the footage which was as shocking as it was factual. Representative of Social Workers? Again, debatable. Nevertheless, worrying.

The DVD is well worth a watch. That is for anyone who likes to be able to express an informed viewpoint and has the freedom of thought and level of intellect to base their opinions on a range of facts and viewpoints rather than preconcieved ideas and common assumptions.

I always find the "Low intelligence" factor to be an ego boosting inclusion by whoever says it ) "Look and admire me; I'm so intelligent I don't buy fascism/racism/communism or whatever) . The horrifying truth is that Surgeons, IT experts .Doctors and many more highly intelligent people have taken up the fascist cause that is Islamic State ; Griffin of the BNP had a Cambridge Degree ; many leading Nazis and Communists are highly educated , so I think your friend was giving his own ego a rub rather than stating any truth. And the truth is that politics is an extremely fertile ground (a paradise in fact) for psychopaths . I think it's 3% of any population are psychopaths and 11% are sadists/ sociopaths with little to no empathy for others, and politics is hugely over subscribed by these types. The last time they had total control that was a serious threat was 1933-45 in Nazi Germany and 1917-91 in Soviet Russia . But look around the World and there are many places where psychopaths are enjoying giving misery to millions via their God give n medium, politics,
To day "Low intelligence" is a too easy by rote-and meaningless -cliché spouted by (usually) the left. It is dangerously ignorant (a "low intelligence" view ?!?)and-as I say-is more rooted in the "What a great person I am" ego of the spouter of the cliché rather than in any fact-horrifying as it is to think people with such obnoxious views actually are more intelligent than the many who are far more tolerant and liberal. You need to contend with that rather than thinking a smug cliché wins the day
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Election

Postby ShotOnTarget » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:57 am

hepcat wrote:
ShotOnTarget wrote:
Shotto wrote:
Nope, can't see an odd one in that lot! All challenging degrees that lead to a worthy career.


I was told by a contact well-versed in such matters "For facism to flourish, the following combination of factors must exist:

1. Low intelligence
2. Lack of transparency
3. Lack of accountability
4. Unfettered power."

He gave the example of the horrors uncovered at Abu Graib prison (where soldiers subjected inmates to abuse) and also asserted that 1 to 4 applied to Social Workers. Interestingly, a lot of undergrads consider degrees in Social Work to be the province of the also-rans. A 'pretend' degree for the thickos incapable of genuine academic achievement. That's debatable. One would have to read Social Sciences to make a valid comparison with ones own degree.

There is, however, growing disquiet as to how out of touch social workers have become to the extent that films such as Traffic 2 are now on release.

https://www.petemiddletonpictures.co.uk/traffic-2

Traffic 1 was successfully banned by the authorities on false assertion of copyright. In reality, the authorities didn't like some of the footage which was as shocking as it was factual. Representative of Social Workers? Again, debatable. Nevertheless, worrying.

The DVD is well worth a watch. That is for anyone who likes to be able to express an informed viewpoint and has the freedom of thought and level of intellect to base their opinions on a range of facts and viewpoints rather than preconcieved ideas and common assumptions.

I always find the "Low intelligence" factor to be an ego boosting inclusion by whoever says it ) "Look and admire me; I'm so intelligent I don't buy fascism/racism/communism or whatever) . The horrifying truth is that Surgeons, IT experts .Doctors and many more highly intelligent people have taken up the fascist cause that is Islamic State ; Griffin of the BNP had a Cambridge Degree ; many leading Nazis and Communists are highly educated , so I think your friend was giving his own ego a rub rather than stating any truth. And the truth is that politics is an extremely fertile ground (a paradise in fact) for psychopaths . I think it's 3% of any population are psychopaths and 11% are sadists/ sociopaths with little to no empathy for others, and politics is hugely over subscribed by these types. The last time they had total control that was a serious threat was 1933-45 in Nazi Germany and 1917-91 in Soviet Russia . But look around the World and there are many places where psychopaths are enjoying giving misery to millions via their God give n medium, politics,
To day "Low intelligence" is a too easy by rote-and meaningless -cliché spouted by (usually) the left. It is dangerously ignorant (a "low intelligence" view ?!?)and-as I say-is more rooted in the "What a great person I am" ego of the spouter of the cliché rather than in any fact-horrifying as it is to think people with such obnoxious views actually are more intelligent than the many who are far more tolerant and liberal. You need to contend with that rather than thinking a smug cliché wins the day


Fantastic post and you are of course bang on. It was the expert (not a friend) that asserted low intelligence, not I. It was based on their professional experiences. Their theory may or may not be sound as the case files are obviously confidential. As I posted, it's wise to take on board a wide range of perspectives (the DVD for example, the veracity of which in large parts is hard to challenge) and draw your own conclusions. People tend to equate 'left/right' (for example) with 'good/evil' depending on their own viewpoint with no real respect for the statistics as to how people are believed to think and behave and those with the unsavoury character traits you quote inhabit the wide political spectrum and also professions, including the 'caring' ones.
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Election

Postby ShotOnTarget » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:40 am

scorp wrote:
Shotto wrote:Far be it for me to defend the social work profession, but for every negative case that comes to the press' attention, there are countless lives saved through the diligence and care of good social workers. Who was it that advocated for the children in the Rochdale sex abuse case, when the police and council workers refused to act?


Spot on.


It was a sexual health worker and a police officer, not social workers who blew the whistle in Rochdale. The docu-drama, 3-girls, the producers stating they had retained the facts, paints a negative picture of the social workers involved. For example, one scene sees a social worker declining to take interest in the case(s) stating their remit was limited to abuse within the family. Another sees a Social Worker telling distraught parents an untruth, in that their daughter (a child) was working as prostitute. Obviously one cannot say that this therefore means that all Social Workers are remissive. It would suggest that particular social work team fell with the statistical samples quoted in hepcats post. It takes people with a significant personality flaw to dismiss child sex abuse on the grounds that it wasn't within their remit. Perish the thought that the social workers concerned were of 'low-intelligence'.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3525507/sara-rowbotham-rochdale-child-grooming-sex-abuse-scandal/
Ian M
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:09 am
Location: 5 miles from Chepstow, Monmouthshire

Re: Election

Postby Ian M » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:10 pm

Of course we now have Lefty Facism to deal with. Some of these loons have spent 50 years in full time education.

So much for theory
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Election

Postby ShotOnTarget » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:01 pm

Ian M wrote:Of course we now have Lefty Facism to deal with. Some of these loons have spent 50 years in full time education.

So much for theory


The Lefty Fascism was very much central to the position that the expert I refer to took. He was a quintessential moderate but was extremely worried to say the least. Left/right? It doesn't matter. You will find fascists.
hepcat
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Election

Postby hepcat » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:20 pm

ShotOnTarget wrote:
Ian M wrote:Of course we now have Lefty Facism to deal with. Some of these loons have spent 50 years in full time education.

So much for theory


The Lefty Fascism was very much central to the position that the expert I refer to took. He was a quintessential moderate but was extremely worried to say the least. Left/right? It doesn't matter. You will find fascists.

I've always found the problem in politics is that people are selectively outraged ; when "Their lot" do corruption or a wrong it's up in arms foaming at the mouth, but when their own party does exactly the same thing they ignore it or come out with the lame apology of "They're worse than we are" . This basically means all politicians/party's get away with it. We need to ignore the silly coloured rosettes and hound any wrong as wrong. You get minor examples of this in say the Sun and Mirror. The Sun will out a load of labour politicians fiddling expenses and not mention the Tories doing the same, and it's the other way 'round with the Mirror. That's why my "Paper" of choice is Private Eye. It outs the lot of them.
This selective-bigotry I suppose is the right word-of the left and right is a root problem .(Examples are The Daily Mail's naïve support of Mosley in the 30's and the lefts equally naïve support of Mugabe (as he was a "Marxist")in the 60's and 70's. If they'd used a simple moral compass instead of being spellbound by the labels they'd easily see the wrong. To me this all came to a comical focus some years back with the lefts complete inability to comprehend the extreme right wing race hate of fundamentalist Islam -presumably as it didn't tie in with their way out of date dogma that only white people can be racists. So you had the BNP protesting against a hate rally by Abu Hamza or whoever, whilst the left protested at the BNP, so you basically had fascists against fascism and anti fascists for the right of non white fascists to be fascists ! They should have formed an alliance with anti extremist Muslims and protested about any type of extremism. A "Keep psycho's at bay" movement !
It's hard to get real debate on politics as so many are blinded by the silly coloured rosettes. I don't know about anyone else, but the EU referendum last year; I found the whole "Debate" absolutely infantile. Cameron's WW3 and Osbourne's £30billion tax hikes if we leave to the £350m a week for the NHS -a figure that has been revised down to £0-and 74million Turks waiting to come here if we stay ! I didn't bother voting. The EU needs urgent reforming, but surely we could have argued for that as well as demanding the EU give us cash for our infrastructure to cope with the numbers coming here (reversing this and giving the extra cash to-say Poland if people all decide to go there.) But that's a long dead Dodo........
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Election

Postby ShotOnTarget » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 am

hepcat wrote:
ShotOnTarget wrote:
Ian M wrote:Of course we now have Lefty Facism to deal with. Some of these loons have spent 50 years in full time education.

So much for theory


The Lefty Fascism was very much central to the position that the expert I refer to took. He was a quintessential moderate but was extremely worried to say the least. Left/right? It doesn't matter. You will find fascists.

I've always found the problem in politics is that people are selectively outraged ; when "Their lot" do corruption or a wrong it's up in arms foaming at the mouth, but when their own party does exactly the same thing they ignore it or come out with the lame apology of "They're worse than we are" . This basically means all politicians/party's get away with it. We need to ignore the silly coloured rosettes and hound any wrong as wrong. You get minor examples of this in say the Sun and Mirror. The Sun will out a load of labour politicians fiddling expenses and not mention the Tories doing the same, and it's the other way 'round with the Mirror. That's why my "Paper" of choice is Private Eye. It outs the lot of them.
This selective-bigotry I suppose is the right word-of the left and right is a root problem .(Examples are The Daily Mail's naïve support of Mosley in the 30's and the lefts equally naïve support of Mugabe (as he was a "Marxist")in the 60's and 70's. If they'd used a simple moral compass instead of being spellbound by the labels they'd easily see the wrong. To me this all came to a comical focus some years back with the lefts complete inability to comprehend the extreme right wing race hate of fundamentalist Islam -presumably as it didn't tie in with their way out of date dogma that only white people can be racists. So you had the BNP protesting against a hate rally by Abu Hamza or whoever, whilst the left protested at the BNP, so you basically had fascists against fascism and anti fascists for the right of non white fascists to be fascists ! They should have formed an alliance with anti extremist Muslims and protested about any type of extremism. A "Keep psycho's at bay" movement !
It's hard to get real debate on politics as so many are blinded by the silly coloured rosettes. I don't know about anyone else, but the EU referendum last year; I found the whole "Debate" absolutely infantile. Cameron's WW3 and Osbourne's £30billion tax hikes if we leave to the £350m a week for the NHS -a figure that has been revised down to £0-and 74million Turks waiting to come here if we stay ! I didn't bother voting. The EU needs urgent reforming, but surely we could have argued for that as well as demanding the EU give us cash for our infrastructure to cope with the numbers coming here (reversing this and giving the extra cash to-say Poland if people all decide to go there.) But that's a long dead Dodo........


Yes. It's classic 'divide and conquer'. Create divisions. Exploit them in every way possible. Create layers of bureaucracy, unelected and unnaccountable in most cases. Allow psychopaths (psychopaths in the true sense) in public service, industry and government (local and national) to do their worst then market it as 'democracy'. It works really well so long as people are preoccupied with non-issues and are pitched against one another. The 'moral compass' party has a future!
shotshammo
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:44 am

Re: Election

Postby shotshammo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:13 am

All politicians fall into the benchmark of insanity.
Politics relies on the fact that for every argument, there is an equal and opposite one.
Politics gets in the way of getting on with your life, unless of course you are a politician.
Richard Petty
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:12 am

Re: Election

Postby Richard Petty » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:32 pm

It is certainly a shame that so many people go into politics for all the right reasons because they care about their country and their constituents but sadly after a period of time the nature of politics seems to drain a lot of that good out of them and the party politics takes over.

There are some exceptions though and those MP's are the ones that actually spend a lot of time working in their constituencies and in some cases work 7 days a week and whilst they are reasonably well paid many of them would be earning far more if they were employed outside of politics so we should be careful not to automatically tar every politician with the same brush I just wish there were more of those exceptions.
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Election

Postby ShotOnTarget » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Richard Petty wrote:It is certainly a shame that so many people go into politics for all the right reasons because they care about their country and their constituents but sadly after a period of time the nature of politics seems to drain a lot of that good out of them and the party politics takes over.

There are some exceptions though and those MP's are the ones that actually spend a lot of time working in their constituencies and in some cases work 7 days a week and whilst they are reasonably well paid many of them would be earning far more if they were employed outside of politics so we should be careful not to automatically tar every politician with the same brush I just wish there were more of those exceptions.


The same applies to many strands of public service. A majority go into service with good intent, only to be changed by the job and the associated pressures. The decency is gradually drained from them and they end up doing the local authorities or governments bidding so as to retain their job.
Birdman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:47 am
Location: Aldershot

Re: Election

Postby Birdman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:51 pm

Hepcat, "That's why my "Paper" of choice is Private Eye". Sports section any good? :wink:
Marcus ex W.Midlands Shot
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: Aldershot

Re: Election

Postby Marcus ex W.Midlands Shot » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:34 pm

hepcat wrote: I've always found the problem in politics is that people are selectively outraged ; when "Their lot" do corruption or a wrong it's up in arms foaming at the mouth, but when their own party does exactly the same thing they ignore it or come out with the lame apology of "They're worse than we are" . This basically means all politicians/party's get away with it. We need to ignore the silly coloured rosettes and hound any wrong as wrong. You get minor examples of this in say the Sun and Mirror. The Sun will out a load of labour politicians fiddling expenses and not mention the Tories doing the same, and it's the other way 'round with the Mirror. That's why my "Paper" of choice is Private Eye. It outs the lot of them.


I think 'selective outrage' is a superbly accurate definition but without wishing to be a patronising old git now I've turned 40, I think the young are more likely to be guilty of it, partly through lack of life experience and partly through the polarising effect of social media.

I was always passionately Labour but as someone with strong political views in the early 90s, you had to deal with those with opposite views: they were your classmates, co-workers, neighbours ... the option to insulate oneself and only interact politically with people on your side, and 'block' everyone else just didn't exist.

I became more jaded / less tribal around the time of the MPs expenses scandal, where the biggest fraudsters were on the Labour side: Margaret Moran, who represented a constituency in Luton (from where people commute to London) but had her 'primary residence' in Southampton and a property in London, and purposely took £50k of public money to which she wasn't entitled; the bloke up north who 'forgot' that he'd paid off his mortgage - yes, there were Tories swiping money as well, but they were mostly just pricks. The Labour offenders were more conniving. I started to realise that there weren't goodies and baddies, and most politicians couldn't be trusted.

Back to the election, I think Corbyn got exactly what he wanted. He had some good ideas IMO but knew he couldn't possibly deliver all those promises. By losing narrowly, he doesn't have to and can retain his saintly image among his followers, who are considerably less cynical than me.

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