Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

lanternhall
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby lanternhall » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:45 am

Red-n-Blue wrote:
shotshammo wrote:P.S. We are witnessing how fickle success is at the moment within the club, that is football for you, we are a great club and I'm confident things will get better on all levels.


I doff my cap to you, sir - but as a fan of many years, would you say things are better today than they were in, say, the 1960s, or 1970s?

The world has changed beyond all recognition and football is no longer the only entertainment option for the youth of today. Speaking as a father of two teenagers, I'd say it's actually pretty low on their list of options, well, as far as supporting their local team is concerned (my son goes to Chelsea 7-8 times a season).

I have a middle-aged friend who lives in Fleet but works in Aldershot. He had no interest in football until his young sons started getting interested. Fast forward ten years and they're all season ticket holders at Reading, and attend every home match as a family. I asked him why he never took his family to Aldershot. His reply: "My boys said Aldershot aren't a proper football club."

Make of that what you will but it's not how we see our club, but how those outside see it.

Please excuse the motoring analogy but we love The Rec in the same way some people love old cars because they're full of nostalgia and old world charm - but how many old cars do we see on our morning commute? The next time you drive past a poor bloke stood on the edge of the road in the pouring rain, next to his broken down MG, consider if you'd swap your soulless modern box with his relic. At the moment, our club is an Austin Allegro - a few people love it but most don't, and never will. We're well past the time to upgrade.

You're post is 100% correct.
shotshammo
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:44 am

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby shotshammo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:25 am

Don't agree with any of your "my friend, rubbish". Follow that logic and there would only be the Premiership and only wealthy people would see live football.
I was involved with Ash Utd whilst my children were young, they looked forward every Sunday to me taking them down there, a real friendly football club, on my door step, so to speak.
lanternhall
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby lanternhall » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:47 am

You said it 'When my children were young" Times have changed.
Red-n-Blue
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:53 am
Location: Aldershot

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Red-n-Blue » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:42 am

shotshammo wrote:Don't agree with any of your "my friend, rubbish". Follow that logic and there would only be the Premiership and only wealthy people would see live football.


You don't agree with what exactly? It's a fact, not an opinion.

The days of vast numbers of football fans attending matches due to some sort of tribal loyalty, are over - it's now an entertainment business. And as such, consumers will compare football matches/clubs based on which provides the best overall form of entertainment experience. Loyalty and location don't factor for most (hence my friend chose Reading over Aldershot and my son chose Chelsea over Aldershot).

Think of it another way - imagine going to a cinema and sitting in a cramped seat, using a portaloo in the car park, and watching a movie you've never heard of - and paying £19 for the privilege. Would you visit that cinema every weekend out of 'loyalty' because it's your local cinema, or would you choose to visit one of the many modern cinemas in the area?

Whether we like it or not, times have changed - clubs like ours either need to move forward or, like many of the old cinemas in the town, we'll eventually close the doors for good.
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby ShotOnTarget » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:09 pm

Red-n-Blue wrote:
shotshammo wrote:Don't agree with any of your "my friend, rubbish". Follow that logic and there would only be the Premiership and only wealthy people would see live football.


You don't agree with what exactly? It's a fact, not an opinion.

The days of vast numbers of football fans attending matches due to some sort of tribal loyalty, are over - it's now an entertainment business. And as such, consumers will compare football matches/clubs based on which provides the best overall form of entertainment experience. Loyalty and location don't factor for most (hence my friend chose Reading over Aldershot and my son chose Chelsea over Aldershot).

Think of it another way - imagine going to a cinema and sitting in a cramped seat, using a portaloo in the car park, and watching a movie you've never heard of - and paying £19 for the privilege. Would you visit that cinema every weekend out of 'loyalty' because it's your local cinema, or would you choose to visit one of the many modern cinemas in the area?

Whether we like it or not, times have changed - clubs like ours either need to move forward or, like many of the old cinemas in the town, we'll eventually close the doors for good.


The cinema analogy is a good one. Another is that of a local pub. The scenario of a pub that is run down, charges top prices for mediocre fayre and then asks it's customers to stay loyal/put their hands in their pockets when the tenant can't pay his bills is laughable, especially if the pub has a history of going bust.

The problem at ATFC is that the thinking that defines the club is both deep-rooted and intransigent. This thinking, Red-n-Blue, is exemplified by one or two of the responses.

I think you are on a hiding to nothing by pointing out your fears. The club has gone bust twice now and there is still no apppetite for fundamental change, just a dogged belief in that tired ideas will eventually bring success and progress.
Birdman
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:47 am
Location: Aldershot

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Birdman » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:24 pm

There's nothing wrong with pointing out fears etc. What I've yet to see or read are comments about the whereabouts of the money that's needed for a new ground or major upgrading of The Rec. My post on the previous page sums up my feelings on the matter.
Headley Shot
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:22 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Headley Shot » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:24 pm

Birdman wrote:There's nothing wrong with pointing out fears etc. What I've yet to see or read are comments about the whereabouts of the money that's needed for a new ground or major upgrading of The Rec. My post on the previous page sums up my feelings on the matter.


I’ve yet to see any concrete ideas or proposals from our Board of Directors at Aldershot regarding the Stadium Birdman !
Maybe people would come forward and consider investment if there was some kind of plan or ambition put forward ?
That is my humble viewpoint.
Ancient Shot
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Ancient Shot » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:32 pm

It's easy to draw up a plan

Not so easy to fund it though
Red-n-Blue
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:53 am
Location: Aldershot

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Red-n-Blue » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm

Birdman wrote:There's nothing wrong with pointing out fears etc. What I've yet to see or read are comments about the whereabouts of the money that's needed for a new ground or major upgrading of The Rec. My post on the previous page sums up my feelings on the matter.


If, when we re-formed in 1992, some sort of cooperative fund had been put in place, we'd probably be close to, if not already in a new ground.

But no - we didn't plan then and we're still not planning now. I know we're not likely to find a few million quid down the back of a sofa, but if you don't even put some kind of plan in place, you'll NEVER achieve anything. It's a bit like writing a book - you have to plot the thing out before you write the first words. After all these years, we're still staring at a blank page.

Let's say we had a new vision, like the old vision of returning to the football league. Perhaps in ten years we might be closer to owning our own ground. Maybe it'll take fifteen, or twenty years - but who amongst us doesn't rue the fact we never considered this back in '92? What frustrates me is that we're still not discussing a plan, let alone implementing one. It's that lack of a common goal that has lead to the current malaise (and yes, it is a malaise because we're, at best, standing still).

Who wants to be part of something that has no ambition, no drive, and no dream?
supershots
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:08 am
Location: Frimley green

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby supershots » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:30 pm

Red-n-Blue wrote:
shotshammo wrote:Don't agree with any of your "my friend, rubbish". Follow that logic and there would only be the Premiership and only wealthy people would see live football.


You don't agree with what exactly? It's a fact, not an opinion.

The days of vast numbers of football fans attending matches due to some sort of tribal loyalty, are over - it's now an entertainment business. And as such, consumers will compare football matches/clubs based on which provides the best overall form of entertainment experience. Loyalty and location don't factor for most (hence my friend chose Reading over Aldershot and my son chose Chelsea over Aldershot).

Think of it another way - imagine going to a cinema and sitting in a cramped seat, using a portaloo in the car park, and watching a movie you've never heard of - and paying £19 for the privilege. Would you visit that cinema every weekend out of 'loyalty' because it's your local cinema, or would you choose to visit one of the many modern cinemas in the area?

Whether we like it or not, times have changed - clubs like ours either need to move forward or, like many of the old cinemas in the town, we'll eventually close the doors for good.


I hope you have done the decent thing and disowned him :shock:
supershots
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:08 am
Location: Frimley green

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby supershots » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:34 pm

I do not see why when talking of a new ground we have to see moving away as the only option,
it would be just as easy to rebuild what we have and as we have landlords they must stump up a good proportion of the bill (some hope of that)
but I believe that if you put a good case to them of rebuilding there would be a good chance of help, if only with the passing of planning permission free of charge! After all we are in a good position to the transport links which would be lost if moved to Queens avenue or similar.
Headley Shot
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:22 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Headley Shot » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:00 pm

Red-n-Blue wrote:
Birdman wrote:There's nothing wrong with pointing out fears etc. What I've yet to see or read are comments about the whereabouts of the money that's needed for a new ground or major upgrading of The Rec. My post on the previous page sums up my feelings on the matter.


If, when we re-formed in 1992, some sort of cooperative fund had been put in place, we'd probably be close to, if not already in a new ground.

But no - we didn't plan then and we're still not planning now. I know we're not likely to find a few million quid down the back of a sofa, but if you don't even put some kind of plan in place, you'll NEVER achieve anything. It's a bit like writing a book - you have to plot the thing out before you write the first words. After all these years, we're still staring at a blank page.

Let's say we had a new vision, like the old vision of returning to the football league. Perhaps in ten years we might be closer to owning our own ground. Maybe it'll take fifteen, or twenty years - but who amongst us doesn't rue the fact we never considered this back in '92? What frustrates me is that we're still not discussing a plan, let alone implementing one. It's that lack of a common goal that has lead to the current malaise (and yes, it is a malaise because we're, at best, standing still).

Who wants to be part of something that has no ambition, no drive, and no dream?


Very well put RnB. Football is a dreams business though. You sell your fans (punters) the dream without actually committing to any measurable way of justifying your business performance.
If the football team loses too often, you can sack the manager !
You constantly plead poverty and beg your fans for more money to run your business.
The more fans you get, the less important losing a few along the way is to your objectives.
I’ve followed my Aldershot dream for over 40 years now and no amount of singing, supporting and following has made any real difference. Nowadays, I don’t expect too much and I must say, I’m much less disappointed :lol:
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby ShotOnTarget » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:43 pm

Ancient Shot wrote:It's easy to draw up a plan

Not so easy to fund it though


On the contrary. A plan with any chance of success will be extremely difficult to construct, will require considerable diplomacy to secure support from the right quarters and a high degree of effort to sell it to the supporters. Funding will be a real problem if people expect to find a magic money tree that has been hidden from view since the last millenium or they expect some Foreign billionare to decide that ATFC is a sleeping giant ready to awake from its slumber with the aid of their spare cash. Although years have been lost, a scheme which sees gradual accumulation of funds remains possible. A friend of mine recounted the story of Gosport Cruising Club. Many years ago, the treasurer persuaded, against a backdrop of cynicism, the membership to contribute to a fund. Samll amounts from many people. Many years later, they had enough money to have a voice and when the are was redeveloped. they were redeveloped as well, using their status as owners to great advantage. Googling GCC, I found the following paragraph relating to Sport England funding:

"Sport England also offers a Community Asset Fund, which awards between £1,000 and £150,000 for local clubs and community groups dedicated to enhancing spaces in the local community. The Small Grants fund also awards between £300 and £10,000 to support not-for-profit organisations who want to get more people playing sport."

These sort of things never seem to be looked into. I guess the price of 'free money' is far to high for some.
ShotOnTarget
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby ShotOnTarget » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:51 pm

Red-n-Blue wrote:
Birdman wrote:There's nothing wrong with pointing out fears etc. What I've yet to see or read are comments about the whereabouts of the money that's needed for a new ground or major upgrading of The Rec. My post on the previous page sums up my feelings on the matter.


If, when we re-formed in 1992, some sort of cooperative fund had been put in place, we'd probably be close to, if not already in a new ground.

But no - we didn't plan then and we're still not planning now. I know we're not likely to find a few million quid down the back of a sofa, but if you don't even put some kind of plan in place, you'll NEVER achieve anything. It's a bit like writing a book - you have to plot the thing out before you write the first words. After all these years, we're still staring at a blank page.

Let's say we had a new vision, like the old vision of returning to the football league. Perhaps in ten years we might be closer to owning our own ground. Maybe it'll take fifteen, or twenty years - but who amongst us doesn't rue the fact we never considered this back in '92? What frustrates me is that we're still not discussing a plan, let alone implementing one. It's that lack of a common goal that has lead to the current malaise (and yes, it is a malaise because we're, at best, standing still).

Who wants to be part of something that has no ambition, no drive, and no dream?


Nail-Head. I really hope people start asking the right questions en-masse. Those who over the years have suggested that the right questions need to be asked have been vilified on this message board and beyond by some low-grade people who would rather see the club die than be exposed to the remote possibility of being proved wrong.
Headley Shot
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:22 pm

Re: Aldershot Town and Aldershot f.c.

Postby Headley Shot » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:05 pm

supershots wrote:I do not see why when talking of a new ground we have to see moving away as the only option,
it would be just as easy to rebuild what we have and as we have landlords they must stump up a good proportion of the bill (some hope of that)
but I believe that if you put a good case to them of rebuilding there would be a good chance of help, if only with the passing of planning permission free of charge! After all we are in a good position to the transport links which would be lost if moved to Queens avenue or similar.


Most supporters would be happy to stay at the EBB if possible.
However, you have to ask yourself if it’s possible to stay AND increase non match day income ?
I hope Rushmoor do force the issue with Farnborough and Aldershot football clubs because the present arrangement is unsustainable for all parties.

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