Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

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Charles Dickens
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Charles Dickens » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm

tonygodfrey wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am
Well obviously I could be wrong. But when every living former PM and virtually every UK industrialist (apart from the bloke who runs Weatherspoons and the bloke who makes overpriced hoovers) tells you something is the case it might be worth listening to them.

If you ask an overseas industrialist what they think you generally get a roll of the eyes and something like "of course we are likely to invest more in the UK if you stay in Europe, surely that's obvious?" I don't think there are any (please correct me) who think it is a good idea for us to leave.

On the other hand, you may wish to believe Boris Johnson, Michael Gove or Nigel Farage who are such nice and sensible chaps that they can barely bring themselves to speak to each other.
But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?

Ancient Shot
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Ancient Shot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Harsh on Tedward

I'm sure they had a referendum and there was a lot of moaning when we voted to join

Ian M
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Location: 5 miles from Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Ian M » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:06 pm

Cph.shots wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:13 pm
Ian M wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:13 am
Well Cph. The argument was the "Right Wing Media's" manipulation of Corbyn's activities.

He prominently attended IRA memorials and Republican marches... are you saying that didn't happen?.
He refused to condemn the IRA when asked directly on camera..........are you saying that didn't happen?
He called HAMAS and Hezbollah "friends" ...then had to publically apologise for it........are you saying that didn't happen?

So, bringing up South Africa doesn't excuse any of the above, or support the point about "Corbyn" being a decent chap and its all Right Wing spin does it? I'm not "excusing" anything as it's not my place and I don't think there's anything to excuse. It is however strange that you only want to see one side of JC and are completly disinterested in anything (allegedly) good he has done. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I am genuinely wouldn't dream of trying to change yours but I do think you have an extremely blinkered way of handling news and information.
Sorry Ian but all I see here is regugitated "statements" from unnamed sources. I'm not stating facts one way or the other because I haven't done the research, unlike many others who just throw stuff out there because it fits their narrative.
All I'm asking is that people check what they quote as "facts".

So there pictures of him there don't count? If you Google "Corbyn forced to apologise for calling HAMAS his friends" one of the fist sources running the story is that Right Wing Rag....


..............THE GUARDIAN! :D :D


The other side of JC? He is a Marxist with all that entails economically speaking. He holds up Venezuela as a model to follow. Oh yes, it of egalitarian third world poverty would be super!

tonygodfrey
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:28 pm
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by tonygodfrey » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:13 pm

Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm


Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
Because these days most big companies are run as multinational enterprises making investment decisions across a range of countries. Their supply chains are spread across many territories and their choices directly effect the success or otherwise of the UK.

Cph.shots
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Cph.shots » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:47 pm

Ian M wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:06 pm
Cph.shots wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:13 pm
Ian M wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:13 am
Well Cph. The argument was the "Right Wing Media's" manipulation of Corbyn's activities.

He prominently attended IRA memorials and Republican marches... are you saying that didn't happen?.
He refused to condemn the IRA when asked directly on camera..........are you saying that didn't happen?
He called HAMAS and Hezbollah "friends" ...then had to publically apologise for it........are you saying that didn't happen?

So, bringing up South Africa doesn't excuse any of the above, or support the point about "Corbyn" being a decent chap and its all Right Wing spin does it? I'm not "excusing" anything as it's not my place and I don't think there's anything to excuse. It is however strange that you only want to see one side of JC and are completly disinterested in anything (allegedly) good he has done. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I am genuinely wouldn't dream of trying to change yours but I do think you have an extremely blinkered way of handling news and information.
Sorry Ian but all I see here is regugitated "statements" from unnamed sources. I'm not stating facts one way or the other because I haven't done the research, unlike many others who just throw stuff out there because it fits their narrative.
All I'm asking is that people check what they quote as "facts".

So there pictures of him there don't count? If you Google "Corbyn forced to apologise for calling HAMAS his friends" one of the fist sources running the story is that Right Wing Rag....


..............THE GUARDIAN! :D :D


The other side of JC? He is a Marxist with all that entails economically speaking. He holds up Venezuela as a model to follow. Oh yes, it of egalitarian third world poverty would be super! I could go to discuss south American economics with you but I think that would be going too far off topic on what is already an off topic thread.

With Sources attached! https://www.collectivevoice.uk/2017/03/ ... -campbell/

James Frazer
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Alexandra Park
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by James Frazer » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:18 pm

Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm
tonygodfrey wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am
Well obviously I could be wrong. But when every living former PM and virtually every UK industrialist (apart from the bloke who runs Weatherspoons and the bloke who makes overpriced hoovers) tells you something is the case it might be worth listening to them.

If you ask an overseas industrialist what they think you generally get a roll of the eyes and something like "of course we are likely to invest more in the UK if you stay in Europe, surely that's obvious?" I don't think there are any (please correct me) who think it is a good idea for us to leave.

On the other hand, you may wish to believe Boris Johnson, Michael Gove or Nigel Farage who are such nice and sensible chaps that they can barely bring themselves to speak to each other.
But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
I would like to suggest that Mr Cameron will prove to be the poorest PM in anybodies lifetime.

Richard Petty
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:12 pm
Location: Farnborough
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Richard Petty » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:32 pm

James Frazer wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:18 pm
Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm
tonygodfrey wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am
Well obviously I could be wrong. But when every living former PM and virtually every UK industrialist (apart from the bloke who runs Weatherspoons and the bloke who makes overpriced hoovers) tells you something is the case it might be worth listening to them.

If you ask an overseas industrialist what they think you generally get a roll of the eyes and something like "of course we are likely to invest more in the UK if you stay in Europe, surely that's obvious?" I don't think there are any (please correct me) who think it is a good idea for us to leave.

On the other hand, you may wish to believe Boris Johnson, Michael Gove or Nigel Farage who are such nice and sensible chaps that they can barely bring themselves to speak to each other.
But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
I would like to suggest that Mr Cameron will prove to be the poorest PM in anybodies lifetime.
Tricky one that as there are more than one that could fight for the "Poorest PM" title. Cameron certainly qualifies because of the way he dealt with the lead up to and the conducting of the referendum. But Jim Callaghan would I suspect win the title "Poorest" for losing control of the country and the Unions in the 1970's, thankfully the country has never been in anything like that mess again. Those of a certain age will remember well the piled up rubbish in the streets with the Rats running wild amongst it, bodies piled in mortuary's and undertakers, the three day week and the rotation of power cuts to save energy. Those really were the dark days.

Ted heath cant be blamed for taking us into Europe because what he took us into is nothing like the Superstate that the EU has since become. Ted Heath took us into the Common Market which had no poitical agenda at the time (well not publicly) If we could turn the EU back into the organisation that it was in the 1970's then I am sure that most Brexit supporters would be happy to stay.

Mytshot
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Mytchett
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Mytshot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Richard Petty wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:32 pm
James Frazer wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:18 pm
Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm


But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
I would like to suggest that Mr Cameron will prove to be the poorest PM in anybodies lifetime.
Tricky one that as there are more than one that could fight for the "Poorest PM" title. Cameron certainly qualifies because of the way he dealt with the lead up to and the conducting of the referendum. But Jim Callaghan would I suspect win the title "Poorest" for losing control of the country and the Unions in the 1970's, thankfully the country has never been in anything like that mess again. Those of a certain age will remember well the piled up rubbish in the streets with the Rats running wild amongst it, bodies piled in mortuary's and undertakers, the three day week and the rotation of power cuts to save energy. Those really were the dark days.
As you say Richard, thankfully the country hasn't returned to the dark days economically of the 1970s when we were the sick man of Europe. Coincidentally the 40ish years that we have been members of the EEC, EC and EU. Or is it a coincidence?

team from clanmell
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:44 pm
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by team from clanmell » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:16 pm

Mr Petty, however you want to gloss it we relied on Europe because of mr Heath putting us in it in whatever form. The united states of Europe will never be united. The germans french spanish and italians will always do with what suits them.
As previous the only good thing with a united europe is the likes of Hitler could be stopped quicker. Though when tito died europe still "pusseyed" around and let atrocitys occur.
Also how good was and is europe about knowing what migrants are in it..The Germans being a great example. I am more than happy we are out,whats more fill the tunnel back in. Great debate though it is all about opinions.

Charles Dickens
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Charles Dickens » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

James Frazer wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:18 pm
Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm
tonygodfrey wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am
Well obviously I could be wrong. But when every living former PM and virtually every UK industrialist (apart from the bloke who runs Weatherspoons and the bloke who makes overpriced hoovers) tells you something is the case it might be worth listening to them.

If you ask an overseas industrialist what they think you generally get a roll of the eyes and something like "of course we are likely to invest more in the UK if you stay in Europe, surely that's obvious?" I don't think there are any (please correct me) who think it is a good idea for us to leave.

On the other hand, you may wish to believe Boris Johnson, Michael Gove or Nigel Farage who are such nice and sensible chaps that they can barely bring themselves to speak to each other.
But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
I would like to suggest that Mr Cameron will prove to be the poorest PM in anybodies lifetime.
I am so sorry, I completely forgot about Cameron which says much about his importance. However, I still keep my vote for Major as he never knew his A from his E, but Cameron knew what he was doing when he came back from Brussels waving a white paper in his hand.So my revised order is 1) Major 2) Cameron 3) Heath. Too early to pronounce on Theresa May, but she seems to be heading up my next list. The thing that perhaps surprises me most is that they are all Conservatives, but then Conservatives are worse than the FA for choosing England managers which is saying something.Now is not the time to get into that hornets nest.

So no Labour PMs on my scale of incompetance, however, a dose of Jeremy may rip up my ratings, but to be fair I must give him a chance to demonstrate how Marxism works when he takes over, which may be quite soon, many thanks to Theresa and her garu Oliver Hardy and Remain Cabinet gang.

bordon shot
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:13 pm
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by bordon shot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:12 pm

James Frazer wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:18 pm
Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm
tonygodfrey wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am
Well obviously I could be wrong. But when every living former PM and virtually every UK industrialist (apart from the bloke who runs Weatherspoons and the bloke who makes overpriced hoovers) tells you something is the case it might be worth listening to them.

If you ask an overseas industrialist what they think you generally get a roll of the eyes and something like "of course we are likely to invest more in the UK if you stay in Europe, surely that's obvious?" I don't think there are any (please correct me) who think it is a good idea for us to leave.

On the other hand, you may wish to believe Boris Johnson, Michael Gove or Nigel Farage who are such nice and sensible chaps that they can barely bring themselves to speak to each other.
But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
I would like to suggest that Mr Cameron will prove to be the poorest PM in anybodies lifetime.
Along with the liar Blair

bordon shot
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:13 pm
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by bordon shot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:19 pm

Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm
James Frazer wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:18 pm
Charles Dickens wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 pm


But Tony, do you remember way back when there was a Referendum result?

Living PMs you hold up to support your anti Brexit views, surely you don`t include John pants Major or Tony who listens to him now Blair as great forward looking thinkers of our age? Thinking of a dead PM, was it not Edward Heath who got us in this mess in the first place.I would find it difficult to choose between Heath and Major as worst PMs in the last 100 years. But perhaps I should be kinder to Heath as he probably thought we were signing up only to a trade agreement.So John Major wins my vote as poorest PM in my lifetime.

Lastly why should we be concerned about German or French industrialists views on the British Referendum?
I would like to suggest that Mr Cameron will prove to be the poorest PM in anybodies lifetime.
I am so sorry, I completely forgot about Cameron which says much about his importance. However, I still keep my vote for Major as he never knew his A from his E, but Cameron knew what he was doing when he came back from Brussels waving a white paper in his hand.So my revised order is 1) Major 2) Cameron 3) Heath. Too early to pronounce on Theresa May, but she seems to be heading up my next list. The thing that perhaps surprises me most is that they are all Conservatives, but then Conservatives are worse than the FA for choosing England managers which is saying something.Now is not the time to get into that hornets nest.

So no Labour PMs on my scale of incompetance, however, a dose of Jeremy may rip up my ratings, but to be fair I must give him a chance to demonstrate how Marxism works when he takes over, which may be quite soon, many thanks to Theresa and her garu Oliver Hardy and Remain Cabinet gang.
Staggering to think that you have not put Tony Blair in your list.

shotsfantic
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:16 pm
Location: Sunny Bagshot
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by shotsfantic » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:42 pm

Isn't Blair a war criminal ? opposite of the Tories gives it all away to anybody , made a personal fortune of over 60 million , lies about manifesto pledge, cant be trusted

Maggie thatchers son wanted by the FBI, her husband stealing people's inventions and saying he invented it to make money, the word crooks spring to mind. old thatcher kept the majority of the country happy while her and her mates stole everything by the back door, but i suppose it depends on what side of the fence your sitting as to your opinion ! if you were getting your pockets lined what did it matter about the rest of the country, were we in europe at the time ? lol can't be trusted

Cameron honesty was his downfall

corbyn blows like the wind to keep power ultra left nutter ? one of his mates will stab him in the back when he gets them to where they want to be or before if he doesn't, probably the big bloke with the glasses et tu brute

Theresa the appeaser Chamberlain May

God help us

Charles Dickens
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Charles Dickens » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:40 am

I did consider Blair in my list. His rejection of the Referendum result would amount to treason in some countries. However, I based my assessment only on his term as Prme Minister, when he did quite well as leader.By the way, he is not a war criminal, but I accept he misread Arab politics like many other politicians, including a far worse offender, David Cameron. Of course there are many who point the finger who have never made a serious decision in their life, In particular many wet Liberal and lefty MPs.

More interesting is why did Tony Blair go off the rails after he resigned as Prime Minister?

scorp
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: England
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by scorp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:26 am

Charles Dickens wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:40 am
I did consider Blair in my list. His rejection of the Referendum result would amount to treason in some countries. However, I based my assessment only on his term as Prme Minister, when he did quite well as leader.By the way, he is not a war criminal, but I accept he misread Arab politics like many other politicians, including a far worse offender, David Cameron. Of course there are many who point the finger who have never made a serious decision in their life, In particular many wet Liberal and lefty MPs.

More interesting is why did Tony Blair go off the rails after he resigned as Prime Minister?
Switched his focus to making lots, and i mean lots, of money?

imo he was a good PM until acting the poodle to Bush re the Iraq war and telling an almighty porkie about weapons of mass destruction.


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