Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

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Birdman
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Location: Aldershot
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Birdman » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:44 pm

Aldershot Gas wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:22 pm
Birdman wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:35 pm
Maybe I've missed the comment in this thread but this re the Irish border situation; if no agreement is reached and it becomes a 'hard Brexit' and we don't impose a hard border between N Ireland and the ROI (leave it as it is) then what would the EU do? Would they impose it thus interfering with the Good Friday Agreement?
Indeed mr bird - England in the semis, footy season soon to start - and you lot continue this pointless thread - I give up !!!!
Your 'comment' is duly noted, Mr G. You have a PM.

tonygodfrey
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by tonygodfrey » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:02 pm

Birdman wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:35 pm
Maybe I've missed the comment in this thread but this re the Irish border situation; if no agreement is reached and it becomes a 'hard Brexit' and we don't impose a hard border between N Ireland and the ROI (leave it as it is) then what would the EU do? Would they impose it thus interfering with the Good Friday Agreement?
Just quickly in order not to inflame the dissenters there would have to be a border in order for WTO tariffs to be applied otherwise there would be chaos. I guess if we didn't do it Ireland would have to. The most practical thing would probably be to have a border effectively placed in the Irish Sea but Unionists would never allow that as it would be likely to lead to a united Ireland. It's a complicated issue. The other thing is that, fairly obviously, we wouldn't have control of our borders if there were no agreement and no checks.

Cph.shots
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Cph.shots » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:21 pm

Aldershot Gas wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:31 pm
Trouts wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:24 pm
Aldershot Gas wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:30 pm
I come on this board for some footy talk, banter and a laugh - and to get away from this type of cr&p - if you want to talk politics, find a political website/forum... instead of a football clubs message board....
well isn't life a disappointment...
i wonder which part of 'Brexit has ruined our country for our youth' made you think this thread was about football before you clicked on it??
Indeed mr fish - life can be disappointing at times - I clicked on this thread due to the number of posts - thinking it might be interesting.... as I said (and so did you in a roundabout way) - life is crap sometimes - this should be a fun message board about football....not full of this type of garbage....
......but apparently it's not garbage for a lot of shotswebbers. It's clearly marked as not football related, the tone has been very civil and I doubt if it takes up s lot of bandwidth so I hope it's allowed to run it's course. Thanks to the admins for letting it stay and to everyone one for the civil posts.

Charles Dickens
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Charles Dickens » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:35 am

Birdman wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:35 pm
Maybe I've missed the comment in this thread but this re the Irish border situation; if no agreement is reached and it becomes a 'hard Brexit' and we don't impose a hard border between N Ireland and the ROI (leave it as it is) then what would the EU do? Would they impose it thus interfering with the Good Friday Agreement?
Irish politics and Brussels politics is an accident waiting to happen.

But your obseravation is a good one.

The British say they want to negotiate but the EC say yes providing you follow or rule book.

If we had held our ground like the EC at the outset, we would not be in this defeatist position right now.

Desertshot
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Desertshot » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:54 am

Charles Dickens wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:35 am
Birdman wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:35 pm
Maybe I've missed the comment in this thread but this re the Irish border situation; if no agreement is reached and it becomes a 'hard Brexit' and we don't impose a hard border between N Ireland and the ROI (leave it as it is) then what would the EU do? Would they impose it thus interfering with the Good Friday Agreement?
Irish politics and Brussels politics is an accident waiting to happen.

But your obseravation is a good one.

The British say they want to negotiate but the EC say yes providing you follow or rule book.

If we had held our ground like the EC at the outset, we would not be in this defeatist position right now.
Could you give a bit more info about this "Irish politics and Brussels politics is an accident waiting to happen" as I'm interested to know what your thinking is on this?
As for you second point all institutions have rules by with the members are asked to abide. This encourages both sides to play by the rules.
We called the referendum not them, they don't wan't us to leave and certainly don't wan't to encourage anyone else to do so! Of course they are going to be stubborn as they are protecting their best interests.
As for the UK gov holding it's ground, IMO we didn't have any ground to hold in the 1st place! As I've said before we are between a rock and a hard place with Brexit, either way the UK Gov turn is a mine field!!!
But we are were we are and we need strong and obdurate leadership. We need to get behind someone and find a way through this god awful mess.

Birdman
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Birdman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:13 am

Another concern for me now is if the negotiations turn into a God Almighty mess (believe it or not we're not quite at that stage yet) then the door to 10 Downing Street could be wide open to the Labour Party and its Momentum movement. Some may relish the idea, others 'not so'.
I've c&p this from the Conferenceforum website, 'Party like it's 1966' thread, and its opening post :-
"Not that many of us had much money to celebrate on. Income tax was 35% and rates went up to 75% and the equivalent of VAT, called "purchase tax" was 33%." This or similar could well be a precursor of things to come.
I've long believed in the UK voting system of '1st past the post' as I felt that if the Government of the day does a good job for the country then it would/should be voted back into power. Equally, if it doesn't then it would/should be turfed out. Now I'm thinking if Proportional Representation may be the way forward so as to neutralise the excesses of extreme policy making. Pluses and minuses on both sides of the PR argument, I'm sure.
Anyway, back to this Brexit chitchat.

Jason
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Jason » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:27 am

I've been out of the loop from this thread for a good few days and it has escalated substantially since I have - but still a good read.

Firstly, Richard thank you for your reply to my previous post. I won't go through it all, because it was too long ago now, but I found it interesting to read. I will also be watching the tv programme you spoke about on another thread, to see what my thoughts are following it.

On another point, a tangent that this thread seems to be veering on slightly is the current political landscape of this country. There seems to be a lot of anti Labour/anti Corbyn/anti Marxist feeling on here, which is something I don't understand.

Jeremy Corbyn and the current Labour party seem to be making lots of suggestions of tackling inequality and injustice within the country at present. Why is this such a bad thing? At a time when the rich few are getting richer and the rest are getting squeezed tighter and tighter, where does the line get drawn?

Birdman
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Location: Aldershot
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Birdman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:35 am

Jason wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:27 am
I've been out of the loop from this thread for a good few days and it has escalated substantially since I have - but still a good read.

Firstly, Richard thank you for your reply to my previous post. I won't go through it all, because it was too long ago now, but I found it interesting to read. I will also be watching the tv programme you spoke about on another thread, to see what my thoughts are following it.

On another point, a tangent that this thread seems to be veering on slightly is the current political landscape of this country. There seems to be a lot of anti Labour/anti Corbyn/anti Marxist feeling on here, which is something I don't understand.

Jeremy Corbyn and the current Labour party seem to be making lots of suggestions of tackling inequality and injustice within the country at present. Why is this such a bad thing? At a time when the rich few are getting richer and the rest are getting squeezed tighter and tighter, where does the line get drawn?
I won't disagree about the inequality that exists here, Jason, and I'm of the view that it needs to be addressed. However, Corbyn et al are strong supporters for the likes of Venezuela and its politics which is why I posted my comment above about PR.

Ian M
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Ian M » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:46 am

Theresa May's biggest failure is increasing the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM.

Jeremy Corbyn's suggestion of tackling equality is excellent in theory... but the practicalities of it masks a whole shedload of fiscal mayhem and social engineering that you might find less endearing.

Regardless.... he was a staunch supporter of the IRA (Millennial's get Googling!) and called HAMAS his friends. He hails Venezuela as utopian. Blimey. Read up on that too! Dangerous wally. And you get his ex girlfriend Diane Abbott as Home Sec. Oh my.

Charles Dickens
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Charles Dickens » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:02 pm

Clever move By Theresa May to appoint dead cert yes men to top positions in her revised cabinet. Clearly she has learned from Donald Trump, select people who will follow your leadership and not answer back or disagree with you.Both Jeremy Hunt and Dominic Raab are young and have one overriding thing in common, they have quite obvious aspirations to replace Theresa when she hangs up her boots. As they say in pole position.But does the country really need yet more super lightweight prime ministers or leaders of the opposition, I would hope not.

Jason
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Jason » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:05 pm

I think often there is a lot of misrepresentation of Corbyn's alleged allegiances with certain groups, which all too often is believed and spun by the hard right liners.

Corbyn has often met with groups from different factions yes, but does meeting with groups necessarily mean support for them? No it doesn't He makes no secret for his desire for equality, justice and peace. How can you broker peace with another group if you don't understand their intentions in the first place? Or do you simply do it by hoping that your army is bigger than theirs and that you will simply kill them until they submit and comply?

Lets not forget that in terms of Irish Peace, Jeremy Corbyn supported the Good Friday Agreement, many Tories did not.

And if we want to talk about support, all political leaders are at it, one of Margaret Thatcher's for instance, General Pinochet, who doesn't exactly have a squeaky clean record when it comes to human rights - but nobody has a problem with that, because he assisted us in the Falklands conflict.

Charles Dickens
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Charles Dickens » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Ian M wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:46 am
Theresa May's biggest failure is increasing the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM.

Jeremy Corbyn's suggestion of tackling equality is excellent in theory... but the practicalities of it masks a whole shedload of fiscal mayhem and social engineering that you might find less endearing.

Regardless.... he was a staunch supporter of the IRA (Millennial's get Googling!) and called HAMAS his friends. He hails Venezuela as utopian. Blimey. Read up on that too! Dangerous wally. And you get his ex girlfriend Diane Abbott as Home Sec. Oh my.
The problem is thst the majority of Tory MPs are Remainers who rule the roost, who can`t see the wood from the trees.Theresa May is under the cosh and appears to be unaware of the dangerous path she is treading.

Cph.shots
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Cph.shots » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:42 pm

Ian M wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:46 am
Theresa May's biggest failure is increasing the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM.

Jeremy Corbyn's suggestion of tackling equality is excellent in theory... but the practicalities of it masks a whole shedload of fiscal mayhem and social engineering that you might find less endearing.

Regardless.... he was a staunch supporter of the IRA (Millennial's get Googling!) and called HAMAS his friends. He hails Venezuela as utopian. Blimey. Read up on that too! Dangerous wally. And you get his ex girlfriend Diane Abbott as Home Sec. Oh my.
Would you mind putting up some of your sources of information Ian?

JC was also a staunch opponent of apartheid, does that also make him a supporter of terrorism?

redblueuptoyou
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by redblueuptoyou » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:46 pm

Gareth Southgate's quote about what the current England team can bring to the nation cuts through all the nonsense exquisitely:

'We’re a team with our diversity and youth that represents modern England and in England we’ve spent a bit of time being lost as to what our modern identity is, and I think as a team we represent that modern identity and hopefully people can connect with us. We have a chance to affect something bigger than ourselves'

Tongham Shots
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Re: Brexit has ruined our country for our youth

Post by Tongham Shots » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:04 pm

Jason wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:05 pm
I think often there is a lot of misrepresentation of Corbyn's alleged allegiances with certain groups, which all too often is believed and spun by the hard right liners.

Corbyn has often met with groups from different factions yes, but does meeting with groups necessarily mean support for them? No it doesn't He makes no secret for his desire for equality, justice and peace. How can you broker peace with another group if you don't understand their intentions in the first place? Or do you simply do it by hoping that your army is bigger than theirs and that you will simply kill them until they submit and comply?

Lets not forget that in terms of Irish Peace, Jeremy Corbyn supported the Good Friday Agreement, many Tories did not.

And if we want to talk about support, all political leaders are at it, one of Margaret Thatcher's for instance, General Pinochet, who doesn't exactly have a squeaky clean record when it comes to human rights - but nobody has a problem with that, because he assisted us in the Falklands conflict.
Excellent post.


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