Corona Virus

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lanternhall
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Corona Virus

Post by lanternhall » Sat May 23, 2020 11:37 am

Aldershot_Rob wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:27 am
I don't believe compulsory voting would work. How can you punish someone who doesn't believe in the system? That person may have an array of reasons for that, where they have faced injustice or been let down.
Then how do you punish them? You can't jail them and surely dragging anyone through to a prosecution will be too costly given then numbers.
Even then, they could just spoil their votes anyway.

I just feel their isn't a central lined party that represents the common people. Tories are seen as too right, labour too left along with the greens. Lib dems are all over the place. Brexit party, ukip whatever it is now was just a bit of a protest party. I don't think anyone took them seriously.
So what's left? Nothing that speaks or connects with everyday people.

The fact the conservative government won an election says it all. It speaks volumes for the opposition that they were seen by majority as the lesser of evils.
You make a very good point but what do we do? The governing party, be it Conservative or Labour does not represent the majority of the country. How can we call that a democracy?

lanternhall
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Corona Virus

Post by lanternhall » Sat May 23, 2020 11:41 am

Crowthorne wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:05 am
As I said before, I would only not vote if it were made compulsory. If you go down that road we are heading towards becoming the DPRK.
I am sorry Crowthome , I don't wish to be offensive as I respect a lot of things that you post. But I don't believe that anyone who can't be bothered to vote has any right to comment on the government in power.

Crowthorne
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Crowthorne » Sat May 23, 2020 11:52 am

LH I didn't say I don't vote, always have. What I said was I would not vote if it were compulsory. My view is that it is a fundamental right of everyone to abstain (as many MPs do).

Fuggletim
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Location: Whitehill
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Fuggletim » Sat May 23, 2020 11:56 am

It is interesting talking about our voting system and who it represents. No system is perfect, but a few years ago we had a referendum to change it. I recall the explanatory leaflet which had 2 x pages or so telling us how the existing system worked and 5 x pages or so telling us how the proposed system worked.

At about the same time in my business we had a change of operational process coming out. In the introductory brief there were about 2 x pages telling you the advantages and about 5 x pages telling you what could go wrong with it!

No wonder, in my view, why we didn’t want to adopt a revised voting system as the leaflet just didn’t sell the idea and made it too complex, like our company procedure!

redblueuptoyou
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by redblueuptoyou » Sat May 23, 2020 12:01 pm

All of the senior Tories are jumping to Cummings’ defence.

It appears we could have all visited our families - whether we had the virus or not - over the past few months as, in Michael Gove’s words, it ‘is not a crime’. :roll:

lanternhall
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Corona Virus

Post by lanternhall » Sat May 23, 2020 12:02 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:52 am
LH I didn't say I don't vote, always have. What I said was I would not vote if it were compulsory. My view is that it is a fundamental right of everyone to abstain (as many MPs do).
I am sorry. Misread your post. I understand and kind of agree with you about abstaining. But if the majority of the country don't vote for the governing party, which they don't. How is that democracy?

Crowthorne
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Crowthorne » Sat May 23, 2020 12:12 pm

Again I didn't say it didn't say it was. I try not vote for any party and was lucky at the general election that there was an independent standing in my constituency.

Mytshot
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Location: Mytchett
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Mytshot » Sat May 23, 2020 12:17 pm

redblueuptoyou wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:01 pm
All of the senior Tories are jumping to Cummings’ defence.

It appears we could have all visited our families - whether we had the virus or not - over the past few months as, in Michael Gove’s words, it ‘is not a crime’. :roll:
The government taking us for fools again. The same way as they tell us a protective ring was put around care homes. Another bare faced lie. Of course Cummings is in the wrong. But the government will get away with it again because as has been said on here several times - its better than a bunch of lefties in charge.

Wokingham Shot
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:34 pm
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Wokingham Shot » Sat May 23, 2020 12:18 pm

As I have mentioned before this is the issue with 'binary' politics.

In most complex cases (which essentially is what major political decisions are) the answer is not black and white. Co-operation, negotiation, concession leading to win:win may take a little longer and can frustrate the electorate, but it prevents the swings from left to right that currently exists.
I suspect the vast, vast, vast majority of people in this country sees themselves as centre right/centre left. Similar basic outlooks with a slight twist in certain areas.

The system almost never gives you this in Westminster. Yes it can give you a strong leader. But outside of crisis such as the one we are currently in, it can be the case that the leader is too strong (ahem Margaret/Anthony).

Never a better example that the 'B' work (apologies Birdie). The actual optimum solution is somewhere in between but the binary nature of the question gave rise to an almost impossible situation.

The UK is not alone. Look across the pond at the total mess the US are in. I read today that some stores are refusing entry to people if the ARE wearing a mask. The wearing of the mask is seen as a 'Democratic' thing. To badly paraphrase Michael Jordan it is apparent Republicans don't wear masks too!!

In reality the only time sense prevails in DC (whoever is in charge) is after the mid terms when invariably one of the houses turns a different colour and they are forced to work together.

Wokingham Shot
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:34 pm
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Wokingham Shot » Sat May 23, 2020 12:21 pm

Mytshot wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:17 pm
redblueuptoyou wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:01 pm
All of the senior Tories are jumping to Cummings’ defence.

It appears we could have all visited our families - whether we had the virus or not - over the past few months as, in Michael Gove’s words, it ‘is not a crime’. :roll:
The government taking us for fools again. The same way as they tell us a protective ring was put around care homes. Another bare faced lie. Of course Cummings is in the wrong. But the government will get away with it again because as has been said on here several times - its better than a bunch of lefties in charge.
Cummings is in the wrong. But it would be ironic if, after everything he has been responsible over the last 20 years as a key political advisor to the Tories, that this is what forces a stand down. Mind, let's be honest, no one actually think that if he was fired over this he would stop having any influence over party policy?

lanternhall
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Corona Virus

Post by lanternhall » Sat May 23, 2020 1:24 pm

Wokingham Shot wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:18 pm
As I have mentioned before this is the issue with 'binary' politics.

In most complex cases (which essentially is what major political decisions are) the answer is not black and white. Co-operation, negotiation, concession leading to win:win may take a little longer and can frustrate the electorate, but it prevents the swings from left to right that currently exists.
I suspect the vast, vast, vast majority of people in this country sees themselves as centre right/centre left. Similar basic outlooks with a slight twist in certain areas.

The system almost never gives you this in Westminster. Yes it can give you a strong leader. But outside of crisis such as the one we are currently in, it can be the case that the leader is too strong (ahem Margaret/Anthony).

Never a better example that the 'B' work (apologies Birdie). The actual optimum solution is somewhere in between but the binary nature of the question gave rise to an almost impossible situation.

The UK is not alone. Look across the pond at the total mess the US are in. I read today that some stores are refusing entry to people if the ARE wearing a mask. The wearing of the mask is seen as a 'Democratic' thing. To badly paraphrase Michael Jordan it is apparent Republicans don't wear masks too!!

In reality the only time sense prevails in DC (whoever is in charge) is after the mid terms when invariably one of the houses turns a different colour and they are forced to work together.
Which is why I have always supported PR. Now before people shout me down and say we voted against it. No we didn't. We voted on a watered down version of PR.
Second preference vote.

Dom Sterlings Left Leg
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Dom Sterlings Left Leg » Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm

Cummings for some reason always seems to get the bed wetters wetting their pants. If you cant play the ball, play the man!

ACA
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:54 am
Re: Corona Virus

Post by ACA » Sat May 23, 2020 1:32 pm

Come on, it's a bit pathetic the way the government are tripping over themselves to try and defend the indefensible. He's being treated no differently to Scotland's Chief Medical Adviser or "Professor Lockdown" (both of whom resigned/stepped back after ignoring restrictions). Dismissing legitimate criticism as "bed wetting" is disingenuous.

lanternhall
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Corona Virus

Post by lanternhall » Sat May 23, 2020 1:40 pm

ACA wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:32 pm
Come on, it's a bit pathetic the way the government are tripping over themselves to try and defend the indefensible. He's being treated no differently to Scotland's Chief Medical Adviser or "Professor Lockdown" (both of whom resigned/stepped back after ignoring restrictions). Dismissing legitimate criticism as "bed wetting" is disingenuous.
Actually ACA, he is being treated differently. He is being defended , when he should be just sacked.

Dom Sterlings Left Leg
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm
Re: Corona Virus

Post by Dom Sterlings Left Leg » Sat May 23, 2020 1:45 pm

Thats your opinion. Mine is different. Professor lockdown was more interested in getting his pants down, slightly different.


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