Protests

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lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm

Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:58 pm
Read MacPherson report. Look at police figures for stop and search on blacks compared to whites.
Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
20% of people tzared by police are black but they only make up 3.5% of the population.

Turnkey
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Re: Protests

Post by Turnkey » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:53 pm

lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm
Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:58 pm
Read MacPherson report. Look at police figures for stop and search on blacks compared to whites.
Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
20% of people tzared by police are black but they only make up 3.5% of the population.
Ok and your point is? Every single incident will be on video, if those officers are in the wrong they’ll be fired or prosecuted, it’s called accountability and justifying your actions. If you want to see what real policing is about, pop along to your local nick and ask to ride along with a couple of officers for a shift and see what really goes on.

lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:24 pm

Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:53 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm
Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm


Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
20% of people tzared by police are black but they only make up 3.5% of the population.
Ok and your point is? Every single incident will be on video, if those officers are in the wrong they’ll be fired or prosecuted, it’s called accountability and justifying your actions. If you want to see what real policing is about, pop along to your local nick and ask to ride along with a couple of officers for a shift and see what really goes on.
My point is that the police are still instutianly racist. It seems that a lot of cases where the officer is wrong are being highlighted and coming to the public's attention.

I believe that you will find that because of this, a lot of the black, ehnic population have no confidence in the police and feel threatened by them. As do a lot of white people.

They are no longer policing by consent.

lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 am

Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:58 pm
Read MacPherson report. Look at police figures for stop and search on blacks compared to whites.
Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
Just read your post again. You state.The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime.
My question is why? Maybe because they are black, they do not have the same opportunities. Are racily abused from a young age. Are given poor housing. The list is endless.

It is a fact that this is a racist country. Not as bad as when Windrush generation arrived but it is still racist. Black People are not given the same opportunities by an elitest white majority. That is a fact.

How do we change it? You start at school. Children aren't born racist. Teach white kids black history and black kids white history.
I am in my 50s. I was taught the glorious British Empire and how we should be proud to be British.
Maybe we shouldn't. It was built on oppression and slavery.

lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:56 am

lanternhall wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 am
Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:58 pm
Read MacPherson report. Look at police figures for stop and search on blacks compared to whites.
Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
Just read your post again. You state.The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime.

My question is why? Maybe because they are black, they do not have the same opportunities. Are racily abused from a young age. Are given poor housing. The list is endless.

It is a fact that this is a racist country. Not as bad as when Windrush generation arrived but it is still racist. Black People are not given the same opportunities by an elitest white majority. That is a fact.

How do we change it? You start at school. Children aren't born racist. Teach white kids black history and black kids white history.

I am in my 50s. I was taught the glorious British Empire and how we should be proud to be British.
Maybe we shouldn't. It was built on oppression and slavery.

Turnkey
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Re: Protests

Post by Turnkey » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:27 am

lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:24 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm


20% of people tzared by police are black but they only make up 3.5% of the population.


My point is that the police are still instutianly racist. It seems that a lot of cases where the officer is wrong are being highlighted and coming to the public's attention.

I believe that you will find that because of this, a lot of the black, ehnic population have no confidence in the police and feel threatened by them. As do a lot of white people.

They are no longer policing by consent.
Seen what’s been going on in Brixton overnight? Open gang warfare, black on black. And who is in the middle trying to stop it? Oh the good old institutionally racist Met. Who should they stop and search after this to find the perpetrators, nice white boys from Putney just to balance the numbers? If the police were racist, they’d just let them get on with until it affected whites. But they don’t, because they aren’t.

bordon shot
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:13 pm
Re: Protests

Post by bordon shot » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:17 am

lanternhall wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 am
Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:58 pm
Read MacPherson report. Look at police figures for stop and search on blacks compared to whites.
Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
Just read your post again. You state.The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime.
My question is why? Maybe because they are black, they do not have the same opportunities. Are racily abused from a young age. Are given poor housing. The list is endless.

It is a fact that this is a racist country. Not as bad as when Windrush generation arrived but it is still racist. Black People are not given the same opportunities by an elitest white majority. That is a fact.

How do we change it? You start at school. Children aren't born racist. Teach white kids black history and black kids white history.
I am in my 50s. I was taught the glorious British Empire and how we should be proud to be British.
Maybe we shouldn't. It was built on oppression and slavery.
You have stated that black people are not given the same opportunities “by an elitist white majority “ I don’t know what you do for a living, but I will say, I was involved in quite a few interviews over last 20 yrs, I can assure you that there was nothing elitist in our conduct when carrying out an interview. I will say now that the majority of people attending interviews were white people,but this was because they wanted this type of work more than black people. I can honestly say that everyone interviewed was taken at face value, maybe some can’t accept that, but that was the reality where I was concerned.

I have enjoyed reading the wide range of different opinions on this board over last few months, but I have to admit I find it incredibly insulting that you are saying that I, & a lot of other Shot Webbers are racist..Especially when you do not know this people on a personal level.

lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:32 am

bordon shot wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:17 am
lanternhall wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 am
Turnkey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm


Anybody with any link to policing has read and studied MacPherson. It was published 21 years ago and the bulk of the recommendations have been implemented. Policing has changed massively since then and the bulk of officers working then are long gone.

The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime. All stops have to be lawfully justified and explained on body worn video. People are stopped because of intelligence received. If that intel points to a suspect being a 25 year old 6 foot black person, the police aren’t going to stop a 5 foot Chinaman are they? Most of the figures quoted are also from the Met, they don’t mention County forces like Hampshire, where the majority of searches are of white juveniles. If you’re really looking for balances, put in a FOI request to every PCC and get their forces figures. You may be surprised at the results.
Just read your post again. You state.The stop and search of young black men in London is a worry, not because it is racist, but because that ethnic group has such a high rate of crime.
My question is why? Maybe because they are black, they do not have the same opportunities. Are racily abused from a young age. Are given poor housing. The list is endless.

It is a fact that this is a racist country. Not as bad as when Windrush generation arrived but it is still racist. Black People are not given the same opportunities by an elitest white majority. That is a fact.

How do we change it? You start at school. Children aren't born racist. Teach white kids black history and black kids white history.
I am in my 50s. I was taught the glorious British Empire and how we should be proud to be British.
Maybe we shouldn't. It was built on oppression and slavery.
You have stated that black people are not given the same opportunities “by an elitist white majority “ I don’t know what you do for a living, but I will say, I was involved in quite a few interviews over last 20 yrs, I can assure you that there was nothing elitist in our conduct when carrying out an interview. I will say now that the majority of people attending interviews were white people,but this was because they wanted this type of work more than black people. I can honestly say that everyone interviewed was taken at face value, maybe some can’t accept that, but that was the reality where I was concerned.

I have enjoyed reading the wide range of different opinions on this board over last few months, but I have to admit I find it incredibly insulting that you are saying that I, & a lot of other Shot Webbers are racist..Especially when you do not know this people on a personal level.
Did you question why the majority of people attending interviews was white?
You say that white people wanted this type of work. Maybe they had the privilege, life style and educational opportunities to be in the position to apply for that kind of work.
Last edited by lanternhall on Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:39 am

Turnkey wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:27 am
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:24 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm


20% of people tzared by police are black but they only make up 3.5% of the population.


My point is that the police are still instutianly racist. It seems that a lot of cases where the officer is wrong are being highlighted and coming to the public's attention.

I believe that you will find that because of this, a lot of the black, ehnic population have no confidence in the police and feel threatened by them. As do a lot of white people.

They are no longer policing by consent.
Seen what’s been going on in Brixton overnight? Open gang warfare, black on black. And who is in the middle trying to stop it? Oh the good old institutionally racist Met. Who should they stop and search after this to find the perpetrators, nice white boys from Putney just to balance the numbers? If the police were racist, they’d just let them get on with until it affected whites. But they don’t, because they aren’t.
The police are doing there job. What has colour got to do with it.?
I know Brixton well. Large black population. These are kids. They could be white kids. Could be anywhere.

From what I read it wasn't gang warfare. Trouble started when police intervened. As I posted on another thread. So they shoud. I support the police. Colour is irrelevant.

bordon shot
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:13 pm
Re: Protests

Post by bordon shot » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:49 am

Why would I question it ? These job applications would be placed where everyone can see them & then apply. As far as I can see, everyone had the same ‘privilege’

You still haven’t explained (Nor apologised) your absurd opinion that the Country is racist

Turnkey
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Re: Protests

Post by Turnkey » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:29 pm

lanternhall wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:39 am
The police are doing there job. What has colour got to do with it.?
I know Brixton well. Large black population. These are kids. They could be white kids. Could be anywhere.

From what I read it wasn't gang warfare. Trouble started when police intervened. As I posted on another thread. So they shoud. I support the police. Colour is irrelevant.
Open your eyes and stop cherry picking from a biased mainstream media. The trouble started when two rival (black) drugs gangs got into a row with knives. Of course Old Bill are going to turn up and do their job. There have been numerous videos on social media showing the disorder and believe me, it is gang related.

On a side note the two communities with the highest stop/search numbers are Brixton and Tottenham. Both have a 75% BAME community. Is it any wonder more black and ethnic minories are stopped than white?

Birdman
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Aldershot
Re: Protests

Post by Birdman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:04 pm

Let me throw this into the mix. Could multi-racial densely populated towns and cities be part of the ‘problem’?
When the local population pre-Windrush saw over the coming years their locality, towns, cities changing then some of the indigenous (aka white) population grew resentful. This led to racial tensions but also to many of them moving out of their ‘home area/towns’ into towns where there were less ‘non-whites‘. Over time, these towns also attracted ‘non-whites’ but not the density that there was/is in parts of London, Birmingham etc.
Could it be the case that populations prefer to ‘live with their own’ rather than live in a cultural melting pot of people that are different to them?

Turnkey
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Re: Protests

Post by Turnkey » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:22 pm

Birdman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:04 pm
Let me throw this into the mix. Could multi-racial densely populated towns and cities be part of the ‘problem’?
When the local population pre-Windrush saw over the coming years their locality, towns, cities changing then some of the indigenous (aka white) population grew resentful. This led to racial tensions but also to many of them moving out of their ‘home area/towns’ into towns where there were less ‘non-whites‘. Over time, these towns also attracted ‘non-whites’ but not the density that there was/is in parts of London, Birmingham etc.
Could it be the case that populations prefer to ‘live with their own’ rather than live in a cultural melting pot of people that are different to them?
Bit like Aldershot and the Nepalese would you say?

lanternhall
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Protests

Post by lanternhall » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:40 pm

Birdman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:04 pm
Let me throw this into the mix. Could multi-racial densely populated towns and cities be part of the ‘problem’?
When the local population pre-Windrush saw over the coming years their locality, towns, cities changing then some of the indigenous (aka white) population grew resentful. This led to racial tensions but also to many of them moving out of their ‘home area/towns’ into towns where there were less ‘non-whites‘. Over time, these towns also attracted ‘non-whites’ but not the density that there was/is in parts of London, Birmingham etc.
Could it be the case that populations prefer to ‘live with their own’ rather than live in a cultural melting pot of people that are different to them?
Well then maybe Enoch Powell was right?

Birdman
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Aldershot
Re: Protests

Post by Birdman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:43 pm

Turnkey wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:22 pm
Birdman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:04 pm
Let me throw this into the mix. Could multi-racial densely populated towns and cities be part of the ‘problem’?
When the local population pre-Windrush saw over the coming years their locality, towns, cities changing then some of the indigenous (aka white) population grew resentful. This led to racial tensions but also to many of them moving out of their ‘home area/towns’ into towns where there were less ‘non-whites‘. Over time, these towns also attracted ‘non-whites’ but not the density that there was/is in parts of London, Birmingham etc.
Could it be the case that populations prefer to ‘live with their own’ rather than live in a cultural melting pot of people that are different to them?
Bit like Aldershot and the Nepalese would you say?
I wouldn’t argue with that. I think that the issue was due to the volume of Nepalese that arrived in a relatively short space of time that caused resentment amongst a vociferous part of the town’s population. Things appear to have quietened down over the last couple of years and I feel that there’s a reluctant acceptance ‘that they are now here‘.


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