Social care crisis

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Reg's corner
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Reg's corner » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:01 am

Thanks, You probably have a point (much of our services are in this position)

I've been in this type of work for about 20 yrs. Although ironically I've ended up in private non residential social support which isn't as regulated as 'care homes'. I've seen, witnessed and experienced a 'bullying' and blame culture exist in certain places, terrible conditions for humble care workers who afterall do the job because they want to help and care for people who are less fortunate than the rest of us.. Its a shame they find themselves having to cope with a whole raft of a other issues.

Not to be toatally negative though, I worked in some great places especially with autistic children and people with Learning disabilities where there is positive, happy culture.

Disturbed Postie
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:42 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Disturbed Postie » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:20 am

Reg's corner wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:01 am
Thanks, You probably have a point (much of our services are in this position)

I've been in this type of work for about 20 yrs. Although ironically I've ended up in private non residential social support which isn't as regulated as 'care homes'. I've seen, witnessed and experienced a 'bullying' and blame culture exist in certain places, terrible conditions for humble care workers who afterall do the job because they want to help and care for people who are less fortunate than the rest of us.. Its a shame they find themselves having to cope with a whole raft of a other issues.

Not to be toatally negative though, I worked in some great places especially with autistic children and people with Learning disabilities where there is positive, happy culture.
Good for you reg 👍

hepcat
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by hepcat » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:14 pm

Reg's corner wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:42 am
The main problem with residential support and care, for learning disabilities, mental health and the elderly is that most schemes are operating as a buisness rather than for purely ethical and welfare theories. That's why you have cost cutting, low wages and recruitment issues.. In my opinion..
The elderly certainly is a business now ; back in the 70's to mid 80's there was private care but it had to compete and better the standards of excellent council provided care ; now they only have themselves as a yardstick monitored by the generally hopeless CQC ( where if you had a failing care home, all you had to do was change it's name and you could carry on being failing for another year ad infinitum )
Learning disabilities ; SCOPE used to provide care homes but they went all Blair in the early 00's and wasted a vast amount of cash on virtue signalling adverts that no one really understood (the "I can't get on this train because you take my seat" type of patronising drivel) and due to the wasting of resources on this nonsense they had to close/commercialise their homes....which would have stayed open if they hadn't of been early virtue signallers and woke-ists. But even the sensible charities are now facing difficulty as the rates paid for care are way short of what it actually costs -and the severest problems have been caused-ironically-by having to pay proper rates after unions won their cases; which just further highlights how out of kilter the governments rates are. That the whole issue needs overhauling and a clear future planned out is without question. But the cynic in me suspects we'll just get the usual sticking plaster and fudge along with the standard heroic buzz words and phrases from the government

Charles Dickens
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Charles Dickens » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:32 pm

I don`t agree that over 40s should pay all the cost if this is the chosen way to finance social care. In fairness every working person should contribute.

As for getting the right quality of staff, the obvious answer is to apply the old but established law of supply and demand. This might require a substantial hike in the wages bill and unpopular higher taxation.However, the nation has to solve this moral problem one way or other. Also it may be a bridge to far to expect necessary broad political agreement.

PS Any reports in the Guardian should have attached a health warning notice.

redblueuptoyou
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by redblueuptoyou » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:48 pm

Charles Dickens wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:32 pm
PS Any reports in the Guardian should have attached a health warning notice.
What is your (and others’) news outlet of choice?

Seemingly the only balanced and fair one about right now is the FT.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:15 am

The thing that people like yourself always fail to understand is that unemployment benefit is not a hand out. It is paid for by National Insurance contributions when working. Self explanatory really. Insurance, should you lose your job. So no they are not scroungers or people conning the tax payer. They are claiming a benefit that they have worked and paid for.

If staff are needed in social care then they should be employed and paid a reasonable wage.
We all know that there is a massive shortfall in NI & Tax contributions that cover the multitude of areas this covers. Nobody is blaming folk for being unemployed, however by increasing their benefit pay out whilst claiming to say do two days a week of labour type jobs (cut grass, collect rubbish etc) should not hurt anyone AND provide a benefit to the community.

What does spark folks neck hairs is when folk challenge the use of the unemployed, seems there is a small percentage that prefer to claim whilst sat on ar*es or even have cash paid jobs to top up claims. Maybe a small number doing this but I'm sure we all know of folk either doing or have done so at some stage.

I have even interviewed unemployed for jobs, they have made it quite clear only reason for applying and being there is they would lose benefit if they didn't.

Any how, looks like times are a changing, taxes and NI will increase, somebody has to pay for deficit. Or we generate more jobs ............. say like cutting grass at care homes, picking up litter, make them a proper job eh !

lanternhall
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Social care crisis

Post by lanternhall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:26 am

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:15 am
The thing that people like yourself always fail to understand is that unemployment benefit is not a hand out. It is paid for by National Insurance contributions when working. Self explanatory really. Insurance, should you lose your job. So no they are not scroungers or people conning the tax payer. They are claiming a benefit that they have worked and paid for.

If staff are needed in social care then they should be employed and paid a reasonable wage.
We all know that there is a massive shortfall in NI & Tax contributions that cover the multitude of areas this covers. Nobody is blaming folk for being unemployed, however by increasing their benefit pay out whilst claiming to say do two days a week of labour type jobs (cut grass, collect rubbish etc) should not hurt anyone AND provide a benefit to the community.

What does spark folks neck hairs is when folk challenge the use of the unemployed, seems there is a small percentage that prefer to claim whilst sat on ar*es or even have cash paid jobs to top up claims. Maybe a small number doing this but I'm sure we all know of folk either doing or have done so at some stage.

I have even interviewed unemployed for jobs, they have made it quite clear only reason for applying and being there is they would lose benefit if they didn't.

Any how, looks like times are a changing, taxes and NI will increase, somebody has to pay for deficit. Or we generate more jobs ............. say like cutting grass at care homes, picking up litter, make them a proper job eh !



So by your reasoning, the majority of genuine people who are unemployed should suffer for the minority who scrounge?

Why should any self respecting person who is unemployed through no fault of theire own have to do compulsory work for the pittance that they receive in benefits.?

If they choose to do it voluntarily , that is a different matter and they have my admiration.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:16 am

So by your reasoning, the majority of genuine people who are unemployed should suffer for the minority who scrounge?
Why is anyone suffering if being asked to work a little for their state benefit?

Your logic is they have a divine right to pay end of, matters not who pays it or how?

Cph.shots
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Cph.shots » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:26 am

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:16 am
So by your reasoning, the majority of genuine people who are unemployed should suffer for the minority who scrounge?
Why is anyone suffering if being asked to work a little for their state benefit?

Your logic is they have a divine right to pay end of, matters not who pays it or how?
If businesses can hire the unemployed for a pittance, why would they want to employ people who really want the job at a fair salary?

hepcat
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by hepcat » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:15 am

lanternhall wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:26 am
Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:15 am
The thing that people like yourself always fail to understand is that unemployment benefit is not a hand out. It is paid for by National Insurance contributions when working. Self explanatory really. Insurance, should you lose your job. So no they are not scroungers or people conning the tax payer. They are claiming a benefit that they have worked and paid for.

If staff are needed in social care then they should be employed and paid a reasonable wage.
We all know that there is a massive shortfall in NI & Tax contributions that cover the multitude of areas this covers. Nobody is blaming folk for being unemployed, however by increasing their benefit pay out whilst claiming to say do two days a week of labour type jobs (cut grass, collect rubbish etc) should not hurt anyone AND provide a benefit to the community.

What does spark folks neck hairs is when folk challenge the use of the unemployed, seems there is a small percentage that prefer to claim whilst sat on ar*es or even have cash paid jobs to top up claims. Maybe a small number doing this but I'm sure we all know of folk either doing or have done so at some stage.

I have even interviewed unemployed for jobs, they have made it quite clear only reason for applying and being there is they would lose benefit if they didn't.

Any how, looks like times are a changing, taxes and NI will increase, somebody has to pay for deficit. Or we generate more jobs ............. say like cutting grass at care homes, picking up litter, make them a proper job eh !



So by your reasoning, the majority of genuine people who are unemployed should suffer for the minority who scrounge?

Why should any self respecting person who is unemployed through no fault of theire own have to do compulsory work for the pittance that they receive in benefits.?

If they choose to do it voluntarily , that is a different matter and they have my admiration.
It's as with everything; the huge majority have to suffer for a tiny minority ; most of the dole laws are made up because of some media hysteria about the scroungers and its the ordinary Joe that suffers through no fault of their own ,and often the hysteria is just that-hysterical nonsense. Who remembers the "Costa del Dole" hysteria of some years back ? Where unemployed were "Taking holidays in Blackpool/Bournemouth-any seaside Town-claiming their dole etc etc etc" . The truth was that they were actually going to these places to get seasonal work and were still entitled to some benefits (ie, NO scandal) and the hasty knee jerk stopping all benefits was quickly and quietly dumped as seasonal workers are desperately needed and the tourist industry was suffering as a result. These people were actively seeking work !
The scroungers that really annoy me are the ones who claim they are so infirm they can't move two feet without terrible pain (and so on ad infinitum) only to be exposed (usually by their own thick selves) by Facebook postings of them dancing manically at a rave or abseiling down a cliff or water skiing fit as the fiddlers they are , but when they go to court-and this is what really bugs me-they turn up in a wheelchair or on crutches STILL pretending they're disabled !! It should be automatic jail for contempt of glaring obvious evidence to the contrary and for assuming we're all as stupid as they are !

ShotOnTarget
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:22 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by ShotOnTarget » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:57 pm

The Social care crisis is a symptom. The cause is the profligacy of public service. Other European countries do far better with far less taxation.

tonygodfrey
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:28 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by tonygodfrey » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:34 pm

Am all for genuine scroungers being rooted out but many are in real need and don't begrudge them that.

The people that get away with big money are the rich and powerful, usually legally but through legislative loopholes or people they lobby, on the grounds of being "wealth creators".

But more people feel they know "scroungers" in their street or from what is alleged in the papers and are happy to concentrate on them. So the rich get away with a lot more, by and large, and society becomes more and more unequal.

BillB
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:04 pm
Location: Herne Bay, Kent
Re: Social care crisis

Post by BillB » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:19 pm

Can I get suicide pills on the national health as an alternative to going into a home....................save a lot of the national wealth system....

lanternhall
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Social care crisis

Post by lanternhall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:33 pm

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:16 am
So by your reasoning, the majority of genuine people who are unemployed should suffer for the minority who scrounge?
Why is anyone suffering if being asked to work a little for their state benefit?

Your logic is they have a divine right to pay end of, matters not who pays it or how?

They do have a right to unemployment benefit. It is something they have been paying National Insurance for, all there working life.
You dont take out insurance with a company and then when you come to claim expect to be told you have to work for it.

Disturbed Postie
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:42 pm
Re: Social care crisis

Post by Disturbed Postie » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:37 pm

Some people are unlucky to be unemployed but some are lazy feckers!


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