Taking The Knee

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Old Bob
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Old Bob » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm

Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am
I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!
Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?

lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:28 pm
The CCP are quite happy to cause disruption to many organisations and western governments with cyber attacks, so why not go one step further. How many times have the Russians been accused of interfering in elections ? Easy to say what planet do you live on, try asking who benefits.
Fair enough. I can see where you are coming from. I believe that these are genuine protests against racism that as always have been hijacked by the hooligan minority.

Shots70
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:58 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Shots70 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm

Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm
Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am
I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!
Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?
A lot of these stabbings that occur in London seem to be black on black, that’s a good enough argument for me!

Turnkey
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Turnkey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 pm

Always the difficulty, some want debate, some want an argument.

Old Bob
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Old Bob » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:16 pm

Turnkey wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 pm
Always the difficulty, some want debate, some want an argument.
They really should be the same thing, Turnkey. Unless by "argument" you mean a quarrel, full-on emotions, name calling, point scoring, ...

Old Bob
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Old Bob » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:18 pm

Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm
Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm
Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am
I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!
Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?
A lot of these stabbings that occur in London seem to be black on black, that’s a good enough argument for me!
I get the inkling that you and I have different standards when it comes to argument.

Turnkey
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Turnkey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:25 pm

Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:16 pm
Turnkey wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 pm
Always the difficulty, some want debate, some want an argument.

They really should be the same thing, Turnkey. Unless by "argument" you mean a quarrel, full-on emotions, name calling, point scoring, ...
Of course they should, but on here they never are...

hepcat
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:31 pm

Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm
Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am
I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!
Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?
Nobodies apologising for any racism or failings of the Police here, but to glibly state that we are remotely as bad as the USA is ludicrous. The worst we had came to a head in the 70's and 80's with the Brixton riots forcing the Scarman report which addressed the racism ingrained in the Police (mainly the Met) and failings have been subject to inquiries and legal changes. And your "Almost as bad" are-thankfully-few and far between rather than a daily happening in the US. None of this has occurred in the US despite infinitely worse abuses. And much to the horror of the left, Britain ISNT a racist society (and again; no apologies or denials about the core that does exist) The US does have a big problem. In the UK there is no way the Police who beat Rodney King-caught on video) would ever be found "Not guilty" as happened in the US (with the "payback" being OJ Simpson found not guilty of a murder he patently committed) The left here like to fantasise that we're worse than the US, worse racists worse everything. This stupidity is actually pushing people to the far right (if they say we're racists no matter what, we might as well be) The biggest problem to racial justice by the police in the US is the election of police chiefs who have to have an agenda to win (like making convicts wear pink suits) and is why civil rights people were murdered with the help of the police in the 60's. We don't have that issue here (though the sooner they scrap the elected council police tsars the better)
I would say wat OTT hyperbole that the UK is as bad/worse than the US are part of the problem and causes far more harm than good.

Mytshot
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Mytchett
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Mytshot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 pm

Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm
Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm
Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am
I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!
Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?
A lot of these stabbings that occur in London seem to be black on black, that’s a good enough argument for me!
Some interesting facts (albeit on a national level) on that subject in this article:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... k-18437547

redblueuptoyou
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by redblueuptoyou » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:02 pm

“The left here like to fantasise that we're worse than the US, worse racists worse everything. This stupidity is actually pushing people to the far right (if they say we're racists no matter what, we might as well be)”

This is quite an incredible way of thinking... The anti-racists are to blame for racism.

As we all know, there are extremes on both sides. Just because someone is left-leaning, it doesn’t mean they think all on the right are racist - and vice versa.

Crowthorne
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:15 pm

Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 pm
Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am
It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people.
So do the crims. It's not all one sided as I pointed out the other day with the two police officers sitting in their car.
People ignored that laz
They seem to conveniently ignore the case of PC Blakelock as well. Remember the OB are always in the wrong.

Old Bob
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Old Bob » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:52 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:31 pm
Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm
Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am
I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!
Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?
Nobodies apologising for any racism or failings of the Police here, but to glibly state that we are remotely as bad as the USA is ludicrous. The worst we had came to a head in the 70's and 80's with the Brixton riots forcing the Scarman report which addressed the racism ingrained in the Police (mainly the Met) and failings have been subject to inquiries and legal changes. And your "Almost as bad" are-thankfully-few and far between rather than a daily happening in the US. None of this has occurred in the US despite infinitely worse abuses. And much to the horror of the left, Britain ISNT a racist society (and again; no apologies or denials about the core that does exist) The US does have a big problem. In the UK there is no way the Police who beat Rodney King-caught on video) would ever be found "Not guilty" as happened in the US (with the "payback" being OJ Simpson found not guilty of a murder he patently committed) The left here like to fantasise that we're worse than the US, worse racists worse everything. This stupidity is actually pushing people to the far right (if they say we're racists no matter what, we might as well be) The biggest problem to racial justice by the police in the US is the election of police chiefs who have to have an agenda to win (like making convicts wear pink suits) and is why civil rights people were murdered with the help of the police in the 60's. We don't have that issue here (though the sooner they scrap the elected council police tsars the better)
I would say wat OTT hyperbole that the UK is as bad/worse than the US are part of the problem and causes far more harm than good.
Gawd, another one who doesn't bother to read what other people post before sounding off. If you had done you would have seen facts and figures and sources quoted that support what I say. I've posted the data more than once. I am not going to repeat it just because you're too lazy to inform yourself.

It's pretty depressing to read this silly stuff, with words like "glib", "ludicrous" and "hyperbole" used to describe a simple statement of the best data I was able to find.

I do agree with you over the O J Simpson affair. It was a travesty. The fact that he was acquitted was a worrying symptom of a society deeply divided on racial lines.

I will freely admit that I was surprised when I looked carefully in to what the evidence says about the chances of black people dying at the hands of the police in the UK. I had not imagined the situation was as bad as it is (i.e., a bit better than the US but not that much better). The difference between you and me is that I've bothered to find this out and you haven't.

lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:51 am

Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:52 pm
hepcat wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:31 pm
Old Bob wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm


Strange post, DP. First of all, I set out for you my reasons for thinking that you haven't "got the message". Rather than argue back at me (which is what you're supposed to do in grown-up discussion), you just blithely say "I have got the message". No argument, no reasoning, no facts, no figures. Just a bald assertion.

Then you repeat your "worse in America than here" when I have several times posted numbers on here (with sources) showing that's it's almost as bad here. But you consistently ignore this. Where are your facts and figures?

Then you say "there's no getting through to people like you"! Well, DP, that's a bit rich. It seems to me like you are the one that is guilty of that.

All my views and opinions are subject to change if someone can show me that they are wrong. To do that, you have to give me better arguments than mine, better data, better interpretation of the data, that sort of thing. Do you get the idea?
Nobodies apologising for any racism or failings of the Police here, but to glibly state that we are remotely as bad as the USA is ludicrous. The worst we had came to a head in the 70's and 80's with the Brixton riots forcing the Scarman report which addressed the racism ingrained in the Police (mainly the Met) and failings have been subject to inquiries and legal changes. And your "Almost as bad" are-thankfully-few and far between rather than a daily happening in the US. None of this has occurred in the US despite infinitely worse abuses. And much to the horror of the left, Britain ISNT a racist society (and again; no apologies or denials about the core that does exist) The US does have a big problem. In the UK there is no way the Police who beat Rodney King-caught on video) would ever be found "Not guilty" as happened in the US (with the "payback" being OJ Simpson found not guilty of a murder he patently committed) The left here like to fantasise that we're worse than the US, worse racists worse everything. This stupidity is actually pushing people to the far right (if they say we're racists no matter what, we might as well be) The biggest problem to racial justice by the police in the US is the election of police chiefs who have to have an agenda to win (like making convicts wear pink suits) and is why civil rights people were murdered with the help of the police in the 60's. We don't have that issue here (though the sooner they scrap the elected council police tsars the better)
I would say wat OTT hyperbole that the UK is as bad/worse than the US are part of the problem and causes far more harm than good.
Gawd, another one who doesn't bother to read what other people post before sounding off. If you had done you would have seen facts and figures and sources quoted that support what I say. I've posted the data more than once. I am not going to repeat it just because you're too lazy to inform yourself.

It's pretty depressing to read this silly stuff, with words like "glib", "ludicrous" and "hyperbole" used to describe a simple statement of the best data I was able to find.

I do agree with you over the O J Simpson affair. It was a travesty. The fact that he was acquitted was a worrying symptom of a society deeply divided on racial lines.

I will freely admit that I was surprised when I looked carefully in to what the evidence says about the chances of black people dying at the hands of the police in the UK. I had not imagined the situation was as bad as it is (i.e., a bit better than the US but not that much better). The difference between you and me is that I've bothered to find this out and you haven't.

Well said. Before ignorent people post. Do your research and know what you are talking about.

Cph.shots
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Cph.shots » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:21 am

I'd just like to chip in a bit.
Re OJ Simpson, it wasn't necessarily because of the colour of his skin that he was aquitted but (maybe) more due to his celebraty status and wealth.it became a "cause celebe" with probably the best defence team available at the the time.
I do agree that there may have been race riots had he been convicted but if he hadn't been famous I'm pretty sure he would have been convicted and probably little press coverage and no riots.

On the matter of PC Blakelock: yes he was murdered by a mainly black mob but also in an area that was overwhelmingly black and poor.
Personally I thing alot of the riots at the the time had more to do with class than race but it suits the government to divide the poor into different groups.

hepcat
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by hepcat » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm

redblueuptoyou wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:02 pm
“The left here like to fantasise that we're worse than the US, worse racists worse everything. This stupidity is actually pushing people to the far right (if they say we're racists no matter what, we might as well be)”

This is quite an incredible way of thinking... The anti-racists are to blame for racism.

As we all know, there are extremes on both sides. Just because someone is left-leaning, it doesn’t mean they think all on the right are racist - and vice versa.
Then come out with a SOLUTION instead of the endless whinging. Stop and search was stopped for being racist. The level of black on black crime (stabbing/murder) rose. Stop and search had lessened the problem, but of course can't be used, yet you scream that the police are racist for not stopping black on black crime. All there is is the scream of racist-no solutions. YES anti racists ARE as guilty of racism and feeding it as the far right -particularly as they ignore any possibility of ethnic racism. This really hit home when you had the far right protesting about Muslim extremist racism outside of Finsbury Park Mosque and the ANL only protesting against the far right. (Racists against racism and anti racists for the right of non white people to be racist)If they were true anti racist they would be condemning the lot, but they only do al la carte racism. They are indeed part of the problem. This is of course the far right and far left who are both intolerant and oppose any thinking against their views (ie they are both as bad as each other and both need to be dumped in a bin and forgotten) And if you can't see how the Woke and Cancel culture of the left is pushing people to the right you have no cause to be surprised or horrified if more Trumps are elected. The debate in the UK is stale and cliched ; new ideas -however much they offend twee sensibilities-need to be aired as no solutions are being thought of-just excuses to whinge.


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