Football in 1975

Crowthorne
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Crowthorne » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:34 am

Old Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm
Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:35 pm
Football was more genuine then, muddy pitches which is natural between October and April, numbers 1-11 and not 1-98 now, 1 sub and not 3 or 5 now, less pampering than now, no VAR crap, not worried about playing twice a week, replays in cups with no fuss, more English/ British players, FA cup million times better than now because a shock then was a shock example being Hereford beating Newcastle and leatherhead beating Burnley?
It was Wimbledon, not Leatherhead, Bob. And of course, it was the "old" Wimbledon club, the one that Milton Keynes stole.
Milton Keynes didn't steal Wimbledon. In reality they rescued a club that were drifting aimlessly with no fans and waiting to go broke.

Boundary Mike
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:39 am
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Boundary Mike » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:49 pm

[/quote]

Milton Keynes didn't steal Wimbledon. In reality they rescued a club that were drifting aimlessly with no fans and waiting to go broke.
[/quote]

Absolutely right, a shame AFC’s fans don’t remember the pitiful years they had playing at Selhurst Park, even thought they constantly held their own in the PL.
their demise was their own making sadly, yet MK will always be blamed or labelled as stealing the club. Bizarre

Farnham Womble
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:30 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Farnham Womble » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:59 pm

Old Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm
Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:35 pm
Football was more genuine then, muddy pitches which is natural between October and April, numbers 1-11 and not 1-98 now, 1 sub and not 3 or 5 now, less pampering than now, no VAR crap, not worried about playing twice a week, replays in cups with no fuss, more English/ British players, FA cup million times better than now because a shock then was a shock example being Hereford beating Newcastle and leatherhead beating Burnley?
It was Wimbledon, not Leatherhead, Bob. And of course, it was the "old" Wimbledon club, the one that Milton Keynes stole.

Old Bob went to the replay of Wimbledon v Leeds in the next round. It was played at Crystal Palace, with a crowd of 45,701.

It was around that time that Leatherhead had Chris Kelly (the Leatherhead Lip) who scored the goal that put them 2-0 up at Leicester.

1975 was also the year that OB got married (and life as he knew it ended :lol: )
Totally agree with you about how much more enjoyable football was to watch in the 1970s. The game today is aneamic. However, in the interests of fairness, it is worth recalling how scary the atmosphere inside and outside of grounds the game could be back then. As a teenage Wimbledon fan I went on the special train to the 1975 FA Cup tie and as we left the town after winning the train was stoned and at Leeds in the next round several Dons fans were stabbed.

I could add that when Aldershot visited Plough Lane for the first time in 1977 visiting fans overturned cars in the streets outside the ground and attacked home supporters in the ground. Different times.

Josh
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 4:34 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Josh » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:06 pm

Boundary Mike wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:49 pm

Absolutely right, a shame AFC’s fans don’t remember the pitiful years they had playing at Selhurst Park, even thought they constantly held their own in the PL.
their demise was their own making sadly, yet MK will always be blamed or labelled as stealing the club. Bizarre
[/quote]

Mk have no right to have a football league club.
There is no place for franchises in English football.
If MK wanted a football league club then they should have started at the bottom of the pyramid just like we did and AFC Wimbledon.

Bob
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:58 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Bob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:13 pm

Josh wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:06 pm
Boundary Mike wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:49 pm

Absolutely right, a shame AFC’s fans don’t remember the pitiful years they had playing at Selhurst Park, even thought they constantly held their own in the PL.
their demise was their own making sadly, yet MK will always be blamed or labelled as stealing the club. Bizarre
Mk have no right to have a football league club.
There is no place for franchises in English football.
If MK wanted a football league club then they should have started at the bottom of the pyramid just like we did and AFC Wimbledon.
[/quote]

Absolutely spot on josh

Old Bob
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Old Bob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:35 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:34 am
Old Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm
Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:35 pm
Football was more genuine then, muddy pitches which is natural between October and April, numbers 1-11 and not 1-98 now, 1 sub and not 3 or 5 now, less pampering than now, no VAR crap, not worried about playing twice a week, replays in cups with no fuss, more English/ British players, FA cup million times better than now because a shock then was a shock example being Hereford beating Newcastle and leatherhead beating Burnley?
It was Wimbledon, not Leatherhead, Bob. And of course, it was the "old" Wimbledon club, the one that Milton Keynes stole.
Milton Keynes didn't steal Wimbledon. In reality they rescued a club that were drifting aimlessly with no fans and waiting to go broke.
Two mistakes here (1) rewriting history (2) swallowing whole the story put about by the MK thieves that Wimbledon was unsustainable as a Football League club. If this was true, WTF are they doing in League One (i.e., Division 3 in proper money)?

And while we're about, how come MK "rescued" a club that is now (albeit in resurrected guise) above them in the table?

Bob
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:58 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Bob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:47 pm

Old Bob wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:35 pm
Crowthorne wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:34 am
Old Bob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm


It was Wimbledon, not Leatherhead, Bob. And of course, it was the "old" Wimbledon club, the one that Milton Keynes stole.
Milton Keynes didn't steal Wimbledon. In reality they rescued a club that were drifting aimlessly with no fans and waiting to go broke.
Two mistakes here (1) rewriting history (2) swallowing whole the story put about by the MK thieves that Wimbledon was unsustainable as a Football League club. If this was true, WTF are they doing in League One (i.e., Division 3 in proper money)?

And while we're about, how come MK "rescued" a club that is now (albeit in resurrected guise) above them in the table?
Again spot on senior roberto

hepcat
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by hepcat » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm

I think you have to view the entire Wimbledon / MK saga to get some sort of balance. Totally ignored is Sam Hammam's role. He took Wimbledon out of Plough Lane and had no realistic plans to ever go back (when he was Cardiff chairman/owner, the City council refused to give him permission to sell Ninian Park to developers without a new stadium being built/funded and in place-they were very aware of the Wimbledon saga) His plans were to relocate Wimbledon to Basingstoke ,and then Dublin ! Wimbledon support was non existent (the 4-5000 they get now is double what they got for top flight fixtures back then; a 25k gate at Selhurst Park would be made up of way over 20k away or "neutral" fans. With no ground/fans they relied on selling . It wasn't a viable club, as an Icelandic consortium soon found out-who also thought of the Dublin idea as a way to survive.
That Winkleman saw the opportunity for them to move to MK is more than in keeping with Hammam's plans to move to Basingstoke or Dublin and generally he has been proved right.(And dont forget, the FA approved it and said it was the only w ay for the club to survive)I don't think Winkleman was doing anything other than taking up the offer to move the club. His option was MK; Basingstoke's loss!!) Wimbledon didn't really start as a serious club until the people realised what they'd lost and that there was virtually no support for the club during their original-amazing-league run. I doubt if many of the newly disgruntled Wimbledon fans were around in those days.
I'm the Devil's advocate here , but the whole issue is far more complex than portrayed, and Wimbledon themselves have a portion of blame. I think it did wake supporters up about what could happen to their own clubs.

Crowthorne
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Re: Football in 1975

Post by Crowthorne » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:52 pm

Wimbledon's treatment of Kingstonian shows that their behaviour is not exactly honorable. It will be interesting to see how well attendances hold up once spectators are allowed into the new ground, I doubt after an initial period crowds won't be great. For people to say certain towns should not be allowed to have football league clubs defies belief, what criteria is acceptable for admittance to the FL?
Just an aside the only decent sports venue in Plough Lane closed in March 2017.

Bob
Posts: 245
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Re: Football in 1975

Post by Bob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:25 pm

I don’t have any time for MKD FC and not particularly bothered about Wimbledon whether I dislike them or not but I didn’t and still don’t like the idea of the people of Milton Keynes suddenly having a football league club in the second tier as it was when they were formed!

Old Bob
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Old Bob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:57 pm

hepcat wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm
I think you have to view the entire Wimbledon / MK saga to get some sort of balance. Totally ignored is Sam Hammam's role. He took Wimbledon out of Plough Lane and had no realistic plans to ever go back (when he was Cardiff chairman/owner, the City council refused to give him permission to sell Ninian Park to developers without a new stadium being built/funded and in place-they were very aware of the Wimbledon saga) His plans were to relocate Wimbledon to Basingstoke ,and then Dublin ! Wimbledon support was non existent (the 4-5000 they get now is double what they got for top flight fixtures back then; a 25k gate at Selhurst Park would be made up of way over 20k away or "neutral" fans. With no ground/fans they relied on selling . It wasn't a viable club, as an Icelandic consortium soon found out-who also thought of the Dublin idea as a way to survive.
That Winkleman saw the opportunity for them to move to MK is more than in keeping with Hammam's plans to move to Basingstoke or Dublin and generally he has been proved right.(And dont forget, the FA approved it and said it was the only w ay for the club to survive)I don't think Winkleman was doing anything other than taking up the offer to move the club. His option was MK; Basingstoke's loss!!) Wimbledon didn't really start as a serious club until the people realised what they'd lost and that there was virtually no support for the club during their original-amazing-league run. I doubt if many of the newly disgruntled Wimbledon fans were around in those days.
I'm the Devil's advocate here , but the whole issue is far more complex than portrayed, and Wimbledon themselves have a portion of blame. I think it did wake supporters up about what could happen to their own clubs.
Well, Mr Cat, I agree entirely that one should always look at the big picture and not simplify things to the point of distorting reality. But I don't think I've done that. I cannot post a complete history of Wimbledon Football Club and expect anyone to read it. You have to be content with just the salient points.

Sam Hamman was not "ignored" but just not mentioned in the few summary sentences that I posted. He was (and still is) an unsavoury and self-serving character and, yes, he sold the Plough Lane ground to Safeways with no realistic prospect of a replacement ground. This always spells disaster for a football club, as Maidstone United had amply demonstrated a few years previous. Both he and the following Wimbledon chairman (Charles Koppel) consistently argued that the ground could not be economically updated to meet the requirements of the Taylor Report, but there were many at the time who argued otherwise.

There are one or two significant inaccuracies in what you say. The last top-flight game I saw at Plough Lane had an attendance of 11,388, which is quite a bit more than the half of 4-5000 that you claim. This was at a time when Southampton, for instance, usually got 11-13000 at the Dell. It's also about what Bournemouth were getting for their recent spell in the Premier League.

It's a half-truth to say that the FA "approved" the move to Milton Keynes. The Football League twice rejected the move. The FA, mindful of the strong threat of legal action, handed the decision over to an independent commission in the hope that this would protect them from litigation if/when they also rejected it. They were then non-plussed to find the commission approving the move, and expressed their disappointment at the ruling. Their statement at the time said: "The Commission reached its conclusions despite evidence presented by the FA opposing such moves in principle". Not exactly a ringing approval, is it?

Old Bob
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Old Bob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:01 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:52 pm
Wimbledon's treatment of Kingstonian shows that their behaviour is not exactly honorable
A good point and one that I agree with.

It is, however, irrelevant to the issue of whether or not MK stole a football league club rather than toiling honestly to build one, as AFC Wimbledon did subsequently.

Anon E Mouse
Posts: 2811
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Re: Football in 1975

Post by Anon E Mouse » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:50 pm

Back to 1975.
Dickie Guy. What a Guy.

shots1965
Posts: 621
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Oklahoma USA
Re: Football in 1975

Post by shots1965 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Anon E Mouse wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:50 pm
Back to 1975.
Dickie Guy. What a Guy.
I’ve just watched it, real football, not a bunch of fairies,that we have now
Can you imagine today’s footballers,epl..Playing on those pitches...Getting mud on their shorts, doesn’t bear thinking about
The Late Brian Moore, the best football commentator ever

Statto
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:05 pm
Location: Aldershot
Re: Football in 1975

Post by Statto » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:18 pm

Anon E Mouse wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:55 am
Bob wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:02 am
Anon E Mouse wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:43 pm


DP you should be very proud of your memory. It's amazing. I'm sure there was another one in league football too but to remember that is incredible.
It certainly helps with the job Mick having a good memory
Long may it last DP
The names/addresses are written for you - what do you need to remember, Bob? :P


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